MSP denials

[BlackInjun]

I think the second part of the quoted statue was being skipped, you can plead guilty or no contest, the second is not pleading guilty. In fact 2 or 3 of the times I received PBJ I didn't plead anything, I told the judge the circumstances and he replied probation before judgement one year next case.

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[2A Maryland]

I’d be curious about how many apps have been denied by MSP

Since we know what the prohibitions are, who would apply knowing the requirements and subsequent denial?


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About 1.9%
Latest numbers will be included in this week's legislative email.

www.2amaryland.org

 

[eruby]

I WAS WONDERING THIS TOO

A) Welcome aboard

B) Perhaps go to the Introductions forum, and post up, so we can know you better.

C) 'Machine gun' postings, of little value, to get to 50 posts, is frowned upon.

D) Please turn of 'All Caps'

 

[swinokur]

My thoughts exactly


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[oldcoldblood]

There are a very few, limited circumstances where you can be approved for purchase, but not for CCW.

For example:
Form 77R: Are you a habitual drunkard?
* A "habitual drunkard" is someone who has had 3 or more DUIs.
CCW Application: Are you currently, or have you ever been, addicted to alcohol; or, are you currently being treated for alcoholism
* An alcoholic need not actually get a DUI

Form 77R only asks about convictions.
* A nolle pros, PBJ and stet are not convictions.
The CCW application asks about convictions, charges, and arrests.
* you can be charged or arrested without ever going to trial, and even if you do go to trial the charges are still there even if the result was a nolle pross, PBJ or a stet.

Form 77R: Have you ever received probation before judgment (PBJ) for a crime of violence/domestically related crime?
* This is self explanatory
CCW Application: Have you ever been served with an ex-parte or protection order for domestic violence?
* This is broader and covers protection orders, which are not necessarily crimes, but civil matters.

So there are a few circumstances where you can be approved for purchase, but not for CCW. I don't know how this all will play out though.

Those CCW questions should have been immediately removed and the 77R questions should have replacemed them. Not as if these applications need to be sent to a print shop. It's a website for heaven's sake. Anything to discourage citizens from exercising their rights.

 

[PEEJAY]

My wife is applying for her hgp and has been arrested a few times and dui etc. but every single thing has been expunged. Does she have to say yes to those questions asking about arrested/convicted/charged or can she say "no" if she got them all expunged. I read through 17 pages on this thread so forgive me if it's been answered and I still don't understand. I dont know how any of this stuff works I have a squeaky clean record (I've never been caught doing anything dumb haha).

 

[PEEJAY]

My wife is applying for her hgp and has been arrested a few times and dui etc. but every single thing has been expunged. Does she have to say yes to those questions asking about arrested/convicted/charged or can she say "no" if she got them all expunged. I read through 17 pages on this thread so forgive me if it's been answered and I still don't understand. I dont know how any of this stuff works I have a squeaky clean record (I've never been caught doing anything dumb haha).

Nevermind...
Sorry folks. I kept reading.
Thanks burkeM. Lots of good info in this thread!

 

[Phoenix_1295]

… has been arrested a few times and dui etc. …

LOL

 

[Threeband]

View attachment 390859
LOL

And husband has squeaky clean record.

Someone wandered into the uncharted corner of the Hot/Crazy Matrix.






You know she's a redhead.

 

[PEEJAY]

And husband has squeaky clean record.

Someone wandered into the uncharted corner of the Hot/Crazy Matrix.






You know she's a redhead.

Not a redhead (im not that dumb) but definitely an interesting ratio of hot/crazy. anybody who could keep up with me had to be at least a little nutty.

we both got sober 7 years ago. not sure how i have a squeaky clean record with all the shenanigans i got into. i guess i had a horseshoe dipped in LSD up my arse. The four winds always blew me safely home.

 

[Threeband]

It's a crazy world.
That horseshoe sounds uncomfortable.
Glad you made it safely home, though.

 

[Old-School Mark]

I certainly hope your application is reviewed and approved in due course. It's unfortunate that in my experience since 2013, numerous people have been approved (77R and HQL) and hung up due to a PBJ when they file for the HGP. We've coached numerous folks through the former HPRB and current Informal Review process successfully.

The common story? People who were arrested/charged and grated PBJ have unfortunately answered "no" to those questions on the HGP application often get set up for disapproval by MSP. Not because of the underlying charge, but for making a false statement on the application.

This is why I repeatedly recommend answering "Yes" to those questions, even if you have had an expungement.

I know I’m late to the party, sorry about that. I just joined.
I called MSP this week to ask them about expungements. The person I spoke with must have heard this question a lot because she answered immediately. She said that the applicant should answer “NO” to the questions but upload any expungement documents. This is consistent with Maryland § 10-109. Disclosure of expunged information prohibited, which clearly states that an applicant may not be required to disclosed expunged records for purposes of state licenses. But, I agree with BurkeM’s response. Answering “Yes” and giving a detailed comment along with expungement papers is probably even safer, especially if the original charges are not disqualifying.
Another option is to hire a lawyer to walk you through the process. Following his instructions shows you acted in good faith.

 

[Old-School Mark]

I know I’m late to the party, sorry about that. I just joined.
I called MSP this week to ask them about expungements. The person I spoke with must have heard this question a lot because she answered immediately. She said that the applicant should answer “NO” to the questions but upload any expungement documents. This is consistent with Maryland § 10-109. Disclosure of expunged information prohibited, which clearly states that an applicant may not be required to disclosed expunged records for purposes of state licenses. But, I agree with BurkeM’s response. Answering “Yes” and giving a detailed comment along with expungement papers is probably even safer, especially if the original charges are not disqualifying.
Another option is to hire a lawyer to walk you through the process. Following his instructions shows you acted in good faith.

I forgot to mention…when filling out any federal form, you MUST answer “Yes” to those questions, even if a charge has been expunged. The federal government is not bound by state laws. Since the MD CCW is a state license, answering “No” is legal for anything that was expunged in Maryland. I have no idea how it would work for something that was expunged in another state.

 

[Blueclaw]

I forgot to mention…when filling out any federal form, you MUST answer “Yes” to those questions, even if a charge has been expunged. The federal government is not bound by state laws. Since the MD CCW is a state license, answering “No” is legal for anything that was expunged in Maryland. I have no idea how it would work for something that was expunged in another state.

Curious how former PBJ traffic violations apply given they are not described in the criminal code, despite taking place in criminal court?

 

[John from MD]

Curious how former PBJ traffic violations apply given they are not described in the criminal code, despite taking place in criminal court?

PBJ is not a conviction and there is no record once the time period of the PBJ expires. IANAL

 

[Mark75H]

PBJ requires a guilty plea. In the end it is vacated, but to my understanding it doesn’t automatically disappear

 

[Old-School Mark]

Curious how former PBJ traffic violations apply given they are not described in the criminal code, despite taking place in criminal court?

Traffic violations are, for the most part, not criminal offenses. Drunk or reckless driving are different. My lawyer mentioned that in MD, reckless driving is considered a minor traffic offense but in other states it’s considered a misdemeanor.

When in doubt, consult an attorney prior to submitting the application. If getting the CCW is important to you, it will be worth the expense. In my opinion, I’d rather answer “Yes” when I don’t have to, but explain the situation in the comments section than to have to appeal a denial. If that happens, you’d have to answer “Yes” every time you’re asked if you’ve ever been denied.