MSP Clarifys Releasing after 7 days on 6/7/13

[Buck Cutter]

Which is absolutely key.

Look, the FFL's are the final gatekeeper and face of firearm purchases. They look the buyer in the eye and interact with them. I count on their discretion, in fact, I have my entire life.

I'm sure they have a lot of experience saying NO. Every single FFL I have dealt with is as frustrated with the situation as we are. They are working WITH us to resolve the situation. If they are not comfortable with transferring without a ND, they have solid ground.

Cut this crap with trying to pressure them into releasing firearms.

Absolutely!

 

[scottp999]

What a giant mess. My FFL (Who I think is fantastic) will not release and has already been named as not releasing until the not-disapproved arrives. I can say that this will be the first and last regulated purchase for my wife, and the last one for me in MD. I just feel really bad for people who are trying to buy their first firearm for personal protection in their homes and having to wait 70 or 90+ days. What happens when someone looses their life in their home while waiting for 90+ days on a 7 day check. Who gets caught up in that mess when the family starts looking to blame someone?

We all know this fingerprinting, training, license purchase is really to get about 75% of people that would otherwise purchase, to say, too much hassle. They tried this exact thing in 1996 and it had to be dropped to get the other parts of the bill through at that time.

 

[swinokur]

Here's an interesting question. If you buy a firearm August 1 and MSP still hasn't sent a ND by Oct 1, are you then required to get a HQL if the weapon is picked up after Oct 1?

I would assume if MSP has your 77r before Oct 1 you'd be legal but who knows?

The PO rule in SB281 does not apply to handguns so don't bother replying to that portion of the new law.please.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

For those who have hostages at Bass Pro, I just spoke with the Firearms Manager.

He is aware of yesterdays MSP letter pertaining to early releases and he said it doesn't change a thing.

No NICS number-no gun.

He said he would contact ATF and ask them for permission for Bass Pro to run the NICS number themselves.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Here's an interesting question. If you buy a firearm August 1 and MSP still hasn't sent a ND by Oct 1, are you then required to get a HQL if the weapon is picked up after Oct 1?

I would assume if MSP has your 77r before Oct 1 you'd be legal but who knows?

The PO rule in SB281 does not apply to handguns so don't bother replying to that portion of the new law.please.

Here's the specific statement in SB281 (section 5-117.1)

(B) DEALER OR ANY OTHER PERSON MAY NOT SELL, RENT, OR TRANSFER A HANDGUN TO A PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE UNLESS THE PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE PRESENTS TO THE DEALER OR OTHER PERSON A VALID HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE ISSUED TO THE PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE BY THE SECRETARY UNDER THIS SECTION.
(C) A PERSON MAY PURCHASE, RENT, OR RECEIVE A HANDGUN ONLY IF THE PERSON:
(1) (I) POSSESSES A VALID HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE ISSUED TO THE PERSON BY THE SECRETARY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS SECTION;


IANAL (but do plan to apply next year after this debacle ) Reads like you need a HQL to receive a handgun after 10/1 to me. I don't see any retroactive language in this section for PO's on handguns (there are exceptions in section A for manufacturers, leo's, retired military and C&R)

The definitive answer will come out in the COMAR update. They will release the regulations in the Maryland Register and there is a 30 day public comment period prior to implementation. I'm sure that'll go well

 

[swinokur]

Wow. More hassles and more money and BS.

MD-what a great place for us. We're so lucky.

ETA-wonder if an AG opinion would stop prosecutions if they occur.

 

[ironpony]

Couple reflections,
newbie here,

First I would like to see how to follow up on the Bass Pro Shops Firearms Manager request to the ATF about running NICS numbers. I do not believe we should bug this guy but request info on what actions he took and the outcome.

Second, I received an email from Delegate Justin Ready stating he sent an email to the MD ST police superintendent asking if there was a way to improve the wait status. Letter was dated May 20. Is this recent letter a response to this??

Third,This also reminds me of the FFL declining sale of an AR to Gabby Giffords husband because the FFL did not believe his reason for purchase was good enough to release the firearm ... if I recall correctly he was trying to prove how easy it was for ANY one to purchase. Kinda funny.

Was this an acceptable first post?
Good luck to all.

 

[swinokur]

yes. now for my spiel. (Yiddish)

Howdy.

www.marylandshallissue.org
.
.

 

[swinokur]

Now go introduce yourself in the Introductions Forum.

 

[Mr H]

Here's the specific statement in SB281 (section 5-117.1)

(B) DEALER OR ANY OTHER PERSON MAY NOT SELL, RENT, OR TRANSFER A HANDGUN TO A PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE UNLESS THE PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE PRESENTS TO THE DEALER OR OTHER PERSON A VALID HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE ISSUED TO THE PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE BY THE SECRETARY UNDER THIS SECTION.
(C) A PERSON MAY PURCHASE, RENT, OR RECEIVE A HANDGUN ONLY IF THE PERSON:
(1) (I) POSSESSES A VALID HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE ISSUED TO THE PERSON BY THE SECRETARY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS SECTION;


IANAL (but do plan to apply next year after this debacle ) Reads like you need a HQL to receive a handgun after 10/1 to me. I don't see any retroactive language in this section for PO's on handguns (there are exceptions in section A for manufacturers, leo's, retired military and C&R)

The definitive answer will come out in the COMAR update. They will release the regulations in the Maryland Register and there is a 30 day public comment period prior to implementation. I'm sure that'll go well

We're still almost 4 months out...

The little tinfoil man next to me is trying to get me to believe that MSP wantswantswants to drag this out, and invalidate (or at least complicate) any notnot disapproved purchases.

The little guy on the other side has a half full glass with him, and feels that the lawsuit and pressure will work.

Funny thing, though... Neither one wants to place a bet.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

We're still almost 4 months out...

The little tinfoil man next to me is trying to get me to believe that MSP wantswantswants to drag this out, and invalidate (or at least complicate) any notnot disapproved purchases.

The little guy on the other side has a half full glass with him, and feels that the lawsuit and pressure will work.

Funny thing, though... Neither one wants to place a bet.

I know how you feel.

With the current 90 - 100 day waits, it's looking like we are approaching the window closing for handgun purchasers to avoid the printing and additional wait for the HQL to get squared away.

I picture MOM driving around with the song "Time is on my side" blasting in his SUV, snickering...

 

[Patrick]

To answer the OP: The letter is real. To the extent you trust me, I can verify it was written and sent by MSP.

 

[Mr H]

This also brings up another concern.

With all the people pressuring their FFLs, I have worry that the backlogs may not be addressed equitably, and people who have been waiting patiently for weeks on end are getting left behind. Theoretically, those people's guns could still be on the shelf when 10/1 rolls around.

I am purposefully not contacting the keeper of my new 1911 (paperwork done 5/6), in order to see how long this will really take (and they are an 8-day-release shop), and not to place undue pressure on their process (but I'm beginning to think they are not taking the real backlog into account).

 

[Doobie]

Sorry took so long for the reply...I work a job in which I never get weekends off (my weekend is during the week >) Anyway I found the Shield at a dealer in WV which transferred it to where its now being held hostage. My buddy has never bought a regulated firearm out of state before so the whole having it transfered to a MD dealer was new territory for him. The WV dealer transferred it to a shop that I guess he uses for such transfers. The dealer its at now...Moores Huntin' & Fishin' in Cresaptown/Cumberland MD. My buddy lives approx 90 miles away from them.

 

[FWPhoto]

I know how you feel.

With the current 90 - 100 day waits, it's looking like we are approaching the window closing for handgun purchasers to avoid the printing and additional wait for the HQL to get squared away.

I picture MOM driving around with the song "Time is on my side" blasting in his SUV, snickering...

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that if your purchase was before 10/1/13 you are exempt (for lack of a better word) from the ban. I take this to include the HQL, as well. In reality, isn't that what a lot of the run on guns is about? Folks are trying to get what they can get prior to the door slamming.

See #1 and #7 in the 1st post of this linked thread. I have a copy of the bill but haven't located that specific language yet. If you have one, the OP gives page references for the explanation.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=114585

 

[swinokur]

My assumption would be if MSP does not have your 77r in hand by 10-1, you're not exempt.

IANAL

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that if your purchase was before 10/1/13 you are exempt (for lack of a better word) from the ban. I take this to include the HQL, as well. In reality, isn't that what a lot of the run on guns is about? Folks are trying to get what they can get prior to the door slamming.

See #1 and #7 in the 1st post of this linked thread. I have a copy of the bill but haven't located that specific language yet. If you have one, the OP gives page references for the explanation.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=114585

The bill says "transfer" and "receive" after 10/1.

Handgun or rifle?

There is no ban on handguns post October. So you can buy one after October, but will have to have the license. If you buy it pre-October, I think the MSP is leaning towards requiring the license even if you purchased in September.

There is no place in the law requiring a license for a grandfathered rifle, whether you have taken possession or not, after October. There initially was, but stripping that requirement was one of our "big wins".

My assumption would be if MSP does not have your 77r in hand by 10-1, you're not exempt.

IANAL

For regulated long guns,

 

[FWPhoto]

The bill says "transfer" and "receive" after 10/1.

Do you have a page reference for that? This is what I read in the bill. I remember listening to the arguments about the purchase orders. Go to page 13 line 9. I tried to copy and paste and the paste doesn't play nicely here:

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281E.pdf

If I am reading this correctly, we should be all good because we purchased and filled out the app long before 10/1/13. I'm still looking for the handgun regs to see if I can find if they added a change.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Do you have a page reference for that? This is what I read in the bill. I remember listening to the arguments about the purchase orders. Go to page 14 line 9. I tried to copy and paste and the paste doesn't play nicely here:

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281E.pdf

If I am reading this correctly, we should be all good because we purchased and filled out the app long before 10/1/13. I'm still looking for the handgun regs to see if I can find if they added a change.

The section you are referring to is for long guns/copycats.

The section on handguns and the HQL starts on page 26, line 18.

Enactment is called out on page 62, line 13.

 

[Moon]

Do you have a page reference for that? This is what I read in the bill. I remember listening to the arguments about the purchase orders. Go to page 13 line 9. I tried to copy and paste and the paste doesn't play nicely here:

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281E.pdf

If I am reading this correctly, we should be all good because we purchased and filled out the app long before 10/1/13. I'm still looking for the handgun regs to see if I can find if they added a change.

I tried to kill your avatar. Twice.

Anyway, it's safe to assume that an FFL that who not release a registered firearm on the 8th day, despite the fact the both MSP and BATF have expressed in writing that it is legal to do so, will not release a registered firearm post 10/1 to someone who does not meet the post 10/1 requirements.