MSP Clarifys Releasing after 7 days on 6/7/13

[Doobie]

A buddy of mine purchased a S&W Shield in 9mm 7 weeks ago. He contacted the dealer today and asked if they are or were going to start releasing on the 8th day. Their reply was "Its still illegal and we aren't going to do it because next year all of those FFLs that are will be arrested or lose their business." I stopped doing business with them a long time ago because of their attitude.

 

[mward]

A buddy of mine purchased a S&W Shield in 9mm 7 weeks ago. He contacted the dealer today and asked if they are or were going to start releasing on the 8th day. Their reply was "Its still illegal and we aren't going to do it because next year all of those FFLs that are will be arrested or lose their business." I stopped doing business with them a long time ago because of their attitude.

Please name them.

 

[JADCecil]

Please name them.

This ^

 

[Curl16]

A buddy of mine purchased a S&W Shield in 9mm 7 weeks ago. He contacted the dealer today and asked if they are or were going to start releasing on the 8th day. Their reply was "Its still illegal and we aren't going to do it because next year all of those FFLs that are will be arrested or lose their business." I stopped doing business with them a long time ago because of their attitude.

Is it possible to get the gun transferred to another FFL that would do the 8th day release?

 

[RIGGS]

This ^

Do tell

 

[mcornish86@gmail.com]

A buddy of mine purchased a S&W Shield in 9mm 7 weeks ago. He contacted the dealer today and asked if they are or were going to start releasing on the 8th day. Their reply was "Its still illegal and we aren't going to do it because next year all of those FFLs that are will be arrested or lose their business." I stopped doing business with them a long time ago because of their attitude.

Apparently the ffl doesn't know the law. They should read MD code public safety 5-123. 8th day release not illegal. Some of these ffls should have their license revoke if they won't even know the laws that coincide with their business. And some of these lawyers also who don't know the law..

Support the ffls that are doing 8th release and support MSI, AGC!

 

[AnonymousShooter]

Apparently the ffl doesn't know the law. They should read MD code public safety 5-123. 8th day release not illegal. Some of these ffls should have their license revoke if they won't even know the laws that coincide with their business. And some of these lawyers also who don't know the law..

Support the ffls that are doing 8th release and support MSI, AGC!

I sent my FFL a copy of the letter via email, and all he did was return a quote from the email while underlining things.

"The Maryland State Police thanks all Maryland firearms dealers for their continued patience and continues to encourage all sellers, lessors and transferors to wait until the Maryland State Police completes its investigation, conducts all checks, and approves the sale, lease or transfer of the regulated firearm before releasing or transferring the firearm.

Is it odd that I don't know how to feel about this?! I mean I want the items i've already paid for in some cases over 90 days ago, but at the same time he's not listening to anything MSP is saying. Parts of this make me not want to do business with him anymore, but at the same time, on the shore i'm pretty limited in my options of where to do business.

 

[Ragnar]

Yes, you missed it. "Under Annotated Code of Maryland, Public Safety Article Section 5-123(a) and consistent with Code of Maryland Regulations Title 29 Section 03.01.10, a regulated firearm may be lawfully sold, leased or transferred by a licensed firearms dealer or other person after the seven-day waiting period, provided that the dealer or person has not received notice that the application has been placed on hold or disapproved by Maryland State Police"

If it may be lawfully transferred, the dealer is not liable.

I would still urge MSI and the other plaintiffs in the MSP lawsuit to demand, in the context of any settlement, definitive guidance from the MSP or AG that the FFL would in no case be sanctioned or held liable if they follow all rules and release after 7 days.

 

[ameridane]

Did anybody file suit against a FFL for not following the law for 8th day release????

 

[swinokur]

How would you sue when the law still says "MAY RELEASE" ?

An FFL can't be compelled to release as long as the law says "MAY"

 

[Bobby Mercer]

My take from the letter is this. FFL's may release a regulated firearm after the 8th day as long as you mail the required forms to MSP with an attachment that says 8th day release. Doing this makes the MSP get off their ass and process that application instead of holding it for months. FFL's can make this process quicker for customers they know just by doing what the MSP is suggesting however, I see a 14th amendment violation in this process.

Let's say I am a MD collector permit holder and buy regularly from ABC Guns. ABC knows me and releases my purchases after the 8th day. No problem there, business as usual in Md. Now lets say a new customer walks into ABC Guns and buys his first regulated firearm from them. ABC decides not to release the firearm on the 8th day and makes the new customer wait months for the NICS check. The new customers 14th right to equal protection has been delayed and thusly denied. There was no distinction between a known customer and a new customer before MSP's game playing.

The only way to return to business as usual is for each and every FFL in Md to release on the 8th day. Don't let MSP decide who gets to enjoy the 14th and 2A rights. No doubt a prohibited person will purchase a firearm and the MSP will have to go after that person, but whose fault would it be if that were to happen? It's the MSP's fault for dragging their feet. Of course the sudden onslaught of 8th day releases could force MSP's hand to return to normal knowing the guns going out the door on the 8th day regardless.

 

[Wojo]

Did anybody file suit against a FFL for not following the law for 8th day release????

Maybe, heard his name was Richard Head

 

[Mr H]

Did anybody file suit against a FFL for not following the law for 8th day release????

That could be uncomfortable, since the MLFDA is party to the MSI/AGC suit against MSP...

 

[Curl16]

How would you sue when the law still says "MAY RELEASE" ?

An FFL can't be compelled to release as long as the law says "MAY"

You're right, the law does may. I guess that is to give FFLs the opportunity to use their discretion.

 

[swinokur]

MD 5-123a does say MAY. Comar Title 29 Section 3.1.10 as well

The letter from MSP says as much.

It does not say they must release it. Case closed

Where did you read otherwise?

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

It doesn't say the must release it

Which is absolutely key.

Look, the FFL's are the final gatekeeper and face of firearm purchases. They look the buyer in the eye and interact with them. I count on their discretion, in fact, I have my entire life.

I'm sure they have a lot of experience saying NO. Every single FFL I have dealt with is as frustrated with the situation as we are. They are working WITH us to resolve the situation. If they are not comfortable with transferring without a ND, they have solid ground.

Cut this crap with trying to pressure them into releasing firearms.

 

[CarlosM]

Which is absolutely key.

Look, the FFL's are the final gatekeeper and face of firearm purchases. They look the buyer in the eye and interact with them. I count on their discretion, in fact, I have my entire life.

I'm sure they have a lot of experience saying NO. Every single FFL I have dealt with is as frustrated with the situation as we are. They are working WITH us to resolve the situation. If they are not comfortable with transferring without a ND, they have solid ground.

Cut this crap with trying to pressure them into releasing firearms.

That, exactly.

 

[swinokur]

+1

 

[iH8DemLibz]

My take from the letter is this. FFL's may release a regulated firearm after the 8th day as long as you mail the required forms to MSP with an attachment that says 8th day release. Doing this makes the MSP get off their ass and process that application instead of holding it for months. FFL's can make this process quicker for customers they know just by doing what the MSP is suggesting however, I see a 14th amendment violation in this process.

Let's say I am a MD collector permit holder and buy regularly from ABC Guns. ABC knows me and releases my purchases after the 8th day. No problem there, business as usual in Md. Now lets say a new customer walks into ABC Guns and buys his first regulated firearm from them. ABC decides not to release the firearm on the 8th day and makes the new customer wait months for the NICS check. The new customers 14th right to equal protection has been delayed and thusly denied. There was no distinction between a known customer and a new customer before MSP's game playing.

The only way to return to business as usual is for each and every FFL in Md to release on the 8th day. Don't let MSP decide who gets to enjoy the 14th and 2A rights. No doubt a prohibited person will purchase a firearm and the MSP will have to go after that person, but whose fault would it be if that were to happen? It's the MSP's fault for dragging their feet. Of course the sudden onslaught of 8th day releases could force MSP's hand to return to normal knowing the guns going out the door on the 8th day regardless.

I don't want the MSP "getting off their asses" and working on 8 day release applications so they can "get them out the door faster".

I want the MSP working on the applications that came across their desks months ago.

I want the FFL's releasing the guns that were purchased months ago.

No one has a right to an 8 day release when others have been waiting, both patiently and impatiently, for 8, 9, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 ,80 and, in some cases, 90 days.

Get ALL of those background checks done first and get ALL of those purchased guns released first, THEN start working on 8 day release applications.

 

[Gryphon]

Hmmm, Pending Verification AND hoping a pro-gun individual is not fabricating MD State documents... if any other dealers received this EMAIL, please speak up! Clarification from MSP this evening.

Outrageous . . . so MSP finally determines its in their best interest (after having been sued, and not having a defense) to state that its lawful to release on the eight day, BUT the MSP encourages all FFL's to continue violating the Constitutional Rights of their customers!