MSP - 7 day wait...

[zoostation]

I heard that they might add a credit check next. Like the Auto Ins people do. My guess is that they are saying if you have bad finacial problems you may be more prone to do straw purchases. Or you are not responsible enough to own a regulated weapon. The measures the Peoples Republic will go to.???

I dunno if you're kidding but I will add that Mayor Bloomberg's crew have suggested some things exactly like that in the past.

 

[smokey]

Unpayed parking tickets are not a legal disqualifier from owning a regulated firearm.

That's why some sunlight should be shed on this question.

You're required to provide a current and valid ID. If the MVA suspended your license for an unpaid parking/ speeding ticket, it's not currently active. It's the same way you can't use an expired license as your govt picture ID.

 

[zoostation]

You're required to provide a current and valid ID. If the MVA suspended your license for an unpaid parking/ speeding ticket, it's not currently active. It's the same way you can't use an expired license as your govt picture ID.

Smokey makes a good point. Further good to note that it's against the law to even possess or display a suspended DL in MD. In theory the person showing a suspended license when applying for a regulated firearm might be putting themselves at risk for prosecution just for that.

I mean really, I think the unpaid ticket thing is just another chickenshit excuse for denial some mid-level supervisor at MSP dreamed up to impress their O'Malley masters, but it is a hard legal argument to beat from a technical standpoint.

The interesting test would be to see if someone who had a suspended license but wasn't otherwise prohibited went and got an MVA ID card and then applied.

 

[clandestine]

You guys have some good points. Things I never thought about.

 

[Inigoes]

You're required to provide a current and valid ID. If the MVA suspended your license for an unpaid parking/ speeding ticket, it's not currently active. It's the same way you can't use an expired license as your govt picture ID.

The MVA doesn't suspend a license, the court does.

http://www.mva.maryland.gov/About-MVA/INFO/26100/26100-60T.htm

The MVA willl attempt to inform the licensee that their license is suspended after being notified by the court.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Sounds like we should be able to concealed carry the firearm that we are buying after being checked out that thoroughly.

 

[zoostation]

Sounds like we should be able to concealed carry the firearm that we are buying after being checked out that thoroughly.

And as an interesting footnote, that's pretty much how it works in Massachusetts. Even as anti-gun as they are, they seem to figure one purpose of having a gun is to have it around in case you need to use it.

 

[mikec]

MSP found info on a member here, that even the state that created the info didn't have on record.


http://mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=40413

http://mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=32554

 

[Zombie_013]

I believe NICS also claims they check 16 databases so likely someone writing the brochure just didn't feel like working too hard.

MSP uses a NICS terminal as part of their check so they're probably including all the databases NICS checks automatically in that number.

Out of those 16, and I don't know them all, are a lot of more minuscule ones like the list of Americans who renounced their citizenship, list of dishonorable discharges, etc.

The big ones that the MSP check adds on starts with MD Courts, which picks up on a lot of warrants and charges that don't make it into the state's main CJIS system due to incomplete or poorly entered information. This is especially common with Baltimore City records.

Then you have the mental institution release and the check on that with the state DHMH.

And now my rant on this part. Lastly you have the highly illegal probing of juvenile records without a circuit court order. Even though state law says that no one may get a police report concerning a juvenile without a circuit court order, MSP takes advantage of an exemption that allows for active criminal investigations by an LE agency to bypass this. Only in the magical world of O'Malley Land does a background check become a criminal investigation when it concerns gun ownership.

Let me tell you how seriously law enforcement agencies take this. At my former employer, I oversaw Central Records for a while, for a few years actually. Our policy had always been, and still is, that you can't even get a police record on yourself concerning when you were a juvenile without a circuit court order. We used to turn away people all the time, and tell them they needed a court order, who would come in and were applying for jobs at NSA, etc. and needed a copy of the report for when they did something dumb as a kid and got in trouble. There are no self-waivers for this court order requirement mentioned in the law. And there are actual criminal penalties, i.e. jail time potential, in the law for people who violate it.

This is one where if a group of gun owners and a good attorney wanted to band together and sue the state under its own law I think they might get somewhere. Anyone whose done the regulated firearm process to purchase a firearm in MD in the past few years has probably had their rights under this law violated, in my opinion. I don't think the state police could win an argument that the criminal investigation exemption was ever meant to extend to routine background checks.

And btw, this is not meant to criticize the people at firearm's licensing or MSP staff. They are under the thumb of the O'Malley administration and that's whose pushing this anti-gun ********. The last MSP Superintendent just got fired after he finally stood up and told O'Malley "no" on one single thing related to running the state police, and that's what happens to people who don't play by the Teflep's agenda.

Here's the law I am referring too. Emphasis added by me:

Regarding this line: Then you have the mental institution release and the check on that with the state DHMH.

I'm not sure there is a database of mental health record. Is this limited to a stay at a state facility or something?

 

[Half-cocked]

My guess? The msp system is so horrible they have 16 databases holding the data that could be done much more effectively out of much fewer. I have no 1st hand msp knowledge but have seen some pretty bad DB implementations out there working in IT.

If the MSP website is any indication, their IT people are clucking fueless.

 

[zoostation]

Regarding this line: Then you have the mental institution release and the check on that with the state DHMH.

I'm not sure there is a database of mental health record. Is this limited to a stay at a state facility or something?

Yes, well kind of. The release you sign is only for state agencies. The state Department of Health and Mental Hygiene requires all admissions to psychiatric facilities to be reported to them. This is what they're checking. In MD you have to have been an inpatient for 30 consecutive days or more to be disqualified, unless you get a doctor's note. The only other data I can think that the state might have would be Medicaid and Medicare records regarding state assisted payments for outpatient care.

However the antis are starting to target private care records as well, though they haven't quite gotten there yet in MD. In at least two states, NJ and Hawaii, you have to sign away a release on ALL of your medical records for your entire life to buy a gun. MSP also requires you to do this for the LTCF process. My wife works for a mental health care provider. She will be the first one to tell you that the average person on the street has no idea how many other average people on the street are under some sort of psychiatric care, even if it's just counseling and a low-grade low-dose antidepressant med. The antis know it's a great way to intimidate people. They know many folks will just walk away rather than admit to having received care that is still very much stigmatized and misunderstood.

 

[Zombie_013]

Yes, well kind of. The release you sign is only for state agencies. The state Department of Health and Mental Hygiene requires all admissions to psychiatric facilities to be reported to them. This is what they're checking. In MD you have to have been an inpatient for 30 consecutive days or more to be disqualified, unless you get a doctor's note. The only other data I can think that the state might have would be Medicaid and Medicare records regarding state assisted payments for outpatient care.

However the antis are starting to target private care records as well, though they haven't quite gotten there yet in MD. In at least two states, NJ and Hawaii, you have to sign away a release on ALL of your medical records for your entire life to buy a gun. MSP also requires you to do this for the LTCF process. My wife works for a mental health care provider. She will be the first one to tell you that the average person on the street has no idea how many other average people on the street are under some sort of psychiatric care, even if it's just counseling and a low-grade low-dose antidepressant med. The antis know it's a great way to intimidate people. They know many folks will just walk away rather than admit to having received care that is still very much stigmatized and misunderstood.

thanks for taking the time to respond

 

[cowboywildbill]

I heard they were actually considering a Credit Check??? Who knows? I'm sure they sit and think of every angle they can to make it more resticted.
I also have heard that Md is not happy about Md residents with out of state CCW non resident permits issued from other States. Not that they care what you do out of state but someone told me they were afraid that Md may try to say it's illegal for someone to transport a handgun for the pupose of taking it out of state to carry it elsewhere. ???
In other words it doesn't meet the criteria to transport it such as to and from a range ect. I guess you could say that your going to a range out of the state?
Interpretation of the law can get sticky especially by an Officer that really doesn't understand the spirit or intent of the law. Best thing to do is put your weapon in one case and the ammo in a seperate case, mags loaded or not.
And if it does go to court you will most likely be cleared, although you might be broke from the legal fee's LOL

 

[Inigoes]

I heard they were actually considering a Credit Check??? Who knows? I'm sure they sit and think of every angle they can to make it more resticted.
I also have heard that Md is not happy about Md residents with out of state CCW non resident permits issued from other States. Not that they care what you do out of state but someone told me they were afraid that Md may try to say it's illegal for someone to transport a handgun for the pupose of taking it out of state to carry it elsewhere. ???
In other words it doesn't meet the criteria to transport it such as to and from a range ect. I guess you could say that your going to a range out of the state?
Interpretation of the law can get sticky especially by an Officer that really doesn't understand the spirit or intent of the law. Best thing to do is put your weapon in one case and the ammo in a seperate case, mags loaded or not.
And if it does go to court you will most likely be cleared, although you might be broke from the legal fee's LOL

MD can pound sand with their fears. As long as you are traveling between states, and abiding by the FOPA.

They can pee in their pants all they want, and will end up paying you a handsome fee for violating your fundmental civil right!

 

[Midgettem1]

Anyone know if MSP is counting the Thanksgiving holiday as a "day" in the 7-day waiting period? I've read the guidelines, but still confused as to how holidays fit in....



I miss the Old Dominion

 

[annihilation-time]

Maybe they aren't checking 16 different databases....Maybe they are entering our firearm purchases into 16 databases. Just a thought.

 

[zoostation]

Anyone know if MSP is counting the Thanksgiving holiday as a "day" in the 7-day waiting period? I've read the guidelines, but still confused as to how holidays fit in....



I miss the Old Dominion

Holidays aren't supposed to matter. The only day that matters is when day 8 falls on a Sunday. In that case pickup day gets postponed until Monday. It isn't up to MSP to decide, the law is written clearly on this.

Note however I said 'supposed' to matter. What might actually happen is anybody's guess. Here in the People's Republic the term "Equal Justice Under Law" has little meaning, as the people are far less "equal" than their state government.

 

[Midgettem1]

Thanks zoostation, I'll keep that in mind, with the appropriate amount of patience.

 

[mopar92]

The only people who should be concerned with a credit check is your FFL. And that's only if you apply for a payment plan.

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

You know, I never used to object to the seven-day waiting period since I never bought a regulated firearm. That opinion changed very rapidly twenty-four hours and twenty-five minutes ago. I want my guuuuuuun!