Md CCW holders and AR pistols

[swinokur]

i have no issue inswering a straight up question with a straight up answer for LE.

you can play the semantics game if you choose to I suppose

my chances of continuing my journey with less hassle have just been increased exponentially.

just my own plan. YMMV.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Another prospective:

I carry a large hammer, breaker bar tool, long screwdrivers, a tire iron, and pepper spray in my vehicle--and sometimes very hot coffee in my Ozark Trail cup. They could all be turned into a weapon if I was attacked.

The usual question is "Do you have weapons in your vehicle?". Since I am not under threat or attack from anyone at that moment, my answer is "no".

 

[knastera]

Another prospective:

I carry a large hammer, breaker bar tool, long screwdrivers, a tire iron, and pepper spray in my vehicle--and sometimes very hot coffee in my Ozark Trail cup. They could all be turned into a weapon if I was attacked.

The usual question is "Do you have weapons in your vehicle". Since I am not under threat or attack from anyone at that moment, my answer is "no".

Very true. A weapon requires intent. A gun is a firearm if you are taking it to the range and a weapon if you are defending yourself.


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[ironpony]

Would saying yes to the "weapon" question prove intent by semantics? Don't answer that, I'm just catching up on the thread.

 

[Schipperke]

I carry a large hammer, breaker bar tool, long screwdrivers, a tire iron

Place anyone of those under your driver seat or wedged between seat and console, it can be considered a weapon. You will not win a semantics game with cops, they have way too much experience. They will probe the "weapon" query many different ways in the stream of conversation to pin people down. "Do you have anything on you or near you in the vehicle you could use to hurt me?"

 

[redeemed.man]

I am going to stick to my "guns" on this. I am not being evasive when I state "there is nothing illegal in my vehicle or on my person, officer". I have addressed any follow-up questions about other contraband they may be concerned with as well, such as there are no drugs, open alcohol containers, etc.

You all are free to do as you wish but my decision is based on my own experience. Officers in an anti-gun state such as Maryland are not used to encountering lawfully armed individuals. That is a fact. This fact is dangerous for those of us that are lawfully armed. Not all officers react to this notification in a calm and professional manner. I will not risk the unnecessary escalation. My statement that "there is nothing illegal, officer" has never been taken as evasive or resulted in additional scrutiny. There is no attitude or sarcasm when I make the statement. Non-verbal communication is at least as important as what you say. Don't come across as threatening or like a prick and you will be fine giving the answer I give. Anyone that thinks notification can't escalate situations in a state like Maryland hasn't been involved with enough LEO contacts.

1997 - I was lawfully armed in MD and VERY clearly identifiable as a "good guy" yet I was drawn on by two officers the moment I mentioned the fact that I was lawfully armed. I prefer not to have guns pointed at me, particularly when I have not behaved in a threatening or unlawful manner. I filed a complaint against both officers at each of their agencies (2 separate agencies involved in one encounter). This was not a traffic stop as I was simply walking to my car from my barber shop. Supervisors from both of these agencies contacted the Lt. Col. at my agency (Montgomery County Dept. of Corrections) and attempted to get me to drop the complaints which I refused to do.

This is not NC, TX, AZ or any other state that can remotely be considered respectful to the rights of private citizens to keep and bear arms.

Arguments that you are somehow protecting officer safety via voluntary notification are non-sensical. Would your gun jump out of your holster and threaten the officer if you didn't notify? How did you make the officer safer? If anything you may have caused an unnecessary increase in his blood pressure/stress level.

Do whatever you guys decide to do. What I do has served me well in numerous encounters since the one in 1997 that went bad.

IMHO experience trumps speculation every time.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

There's no Maryland law that makes it illegal to lie to the police. It is a crime to make a false report to the police that causes them to undertake an investigation, but a simple lie ("no weapons in the car officer")is not a crime. Otherwise every person who tells the officer "oh no there are no drugs in this car" would be charged.

Now it is a crime to lie to a Federal Agent under Federal law so that is a very different matter.

 

[DC-W]

The BGOS in here is beyond belief.

 

[knastera]

This is clearly a murky issue, particularly in the People's Republic of Maryland.


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[Rack&Roll]

I have had police ask me "Do you have any weapons here..." referring to where I live.

Same answer, NO.

 

[Schipperke]

Maybe just overthinking this. Make it easy and say nothing.

 

[knastera]

Maybe just overthinking this. Make it easy and say nothing.

OK, but how would a rational officer respond to that?


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[Schipperke]

OK, but how would a rational officer respond to that?


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No idea. May depend if they have a pressing engagement. I now am wondering about states with laws that make it compulsory to inform you are carrying on contact. Is that some right you agree to suspend (to remain silent) to get their permit or carry in that state? From what I've read the only thing required to tell an officer is your name. Anything else, "I'd like to see my attorney" and/or "I do not consent to a search" (if asked)

 

[knastera]

No idea. May depend if they have a pressing engagement. I now am wondering about states with laws that make it compulsory to inform you are carrying on contact. Is that some right you agree to suspend (to remain silent) to get their permit or carry in that state? From what I've read the only thing required to tell an officer is your name. Anything else, "I'd like to see my attorney" and/or "I do not consent to a search" (if asked)

Since we have protection against self-incrimination, I would think there is nothing illegal about not saying anything, but that will most likely result in a trip to the station.


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[ironpony]

Boundless, please don't feel you need to explain too much, I feel your pain and I don't think anyone has said you are "wrong".
You mention NC of which I have a story of being stopped at a sobriety check point, I informed the officer first thing, he never said a word about me carrying but made me take a breathalyzer - since I was cooking for 14 hrs at a bbq cook off I looked off a bit. He was more concerned in my ability to drive. I don't drink and passed, "carry on" he said which I found comical, NC is a different world compared to MD.

 

[2ndltsdad]

so... you say nothing or dont tell them you are a ccw with gun on you. the cop happens to see the print of your carry through your tee shirt. how nice do you think the cop will be to you as he sticks his gun in your nose. some times you dont get a second chance to explain your position. just what if the same cop just came from another stress full call and is not if the frame of mind to take any bs from another smart ass. that failed to tell him Oh by the way i have my gun .... a rookie with little or no on the job training with this and over flowing with stress. same call happens at night, he's looking at you with a flash light and his ride along is on the other side of your car and see the gun in the console... but I watch to much tv , i guess this stuff never happens in real life !

 

[Stoveman]

Terrible analogy. The cop is not at your house for a legal PC interaction.

But you said you've never had a cop ask you this on many traffic stops, so how can you say that you would engage in the suspicious behavior? Avoiding answering a simple yes or no question IS suspicious. So you don't trust cops.

I find it funny that you would go to a rally in Pennsylvania cheering on the police as they march by but wouldn't have the manners to answer a simple yes or no question asked by the same cops.
Contradict much?

Nope.

Showing support for riot gear clad officers who aren't led by a liberal douche nozzle and are about to not take any crap from a bunch of snowflake commies and choosing to truthfully answer a question in a routine traffic stop are indeed not even in the same conversational ball park.

But I'm sure you knew that.


As for trust, I have implicit trust in all LEO until they give me a reason not to. The MD Gun Center, not so much....

 

[knastera]

There was an earlier discussion about whether or not USCCA will provide legal support if you have a issue related to carrying but not in a defensive situation. I sent the following to USCCA:
"I am a member. If I get pulled over at a routine traffic stop while legally carrying a firearm, and I get arrested as a result of carrying it, does my plan provide an attorney for the matter of the firearm related issue?"
Here is the answer:
"Thank you for contacting the USCCA. That is a great question. We certainly handle each situation on a case buy [sic] case basis. As long as you can legally own said firearm, we will protect your rights. Now we cannot guarantee that charges will be dropped, be we will certainly fight along side of you."


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[knastera]

A simple "No" would be my answer while maintaining the overall rule of "no surprises". If I'm ordered out of the car for whatever reason, I'd inform prior to doing so. If just a stop, "No" it is and all will be none the wiser at the conclusion of the interaction as well. If informing I think I'd go with "I'm 10-32 at my 4 o'clock and my credentials are in my wallet, how would you like me to proceed" with the hope that things would go smoother than just saying "I got a gun".

I can understand that, although I think I'd avoid the 10 code. Maybe, "I have a carry permit and I'm carrying a loaded firearm on my right hip. How would you like me to proceed?"



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[Rack&Roll]

10-4 there knastera!