Looking for suggestions for a junior hunt firearm

[lazarus]

I meant to say "using 50 grain pellets".

The standard deer charge of powder is 100 grains, or 2 50 grain pellets.

That might be kind of high recoil. I know my even 15 year old would struggle with that off a bench unless I put a much heavier scope on my Wolf. Could work great. But I know my weedy 13 year old would get broken in half by that load. He thinks my .223 bolt gun is uncomfortably high recoil for him (my 15 year old shoots my Garand from a bench sometimes. He isn’t strong enough to shoot it off hand with any accuracy).

A lot of practice with a 22, and then basically only hunting shots might be okay except the smallest of kids. But a lot of practice with the ML is probably going to give any kid who isn’t big or an older teenager a bad flinch. (Or maybe load it with only one pellet for practice and two for hunting).

 

[outrider58]

Youth weekend is around veteran’s day prime rut in MD. Archery season opens the second Friday in September and ends the end of January (only closed on youth day and Sundays some counties).

 

[hobiecat590]

A scoped CVA Wolf muzzleloader (.50cal) will allow the boy to get an extra hunting season in.

It's not a hard learning curve with 50 grain pellets and sabot bullets. Definitely, no recoil. A heck of a lot lighter than a shotgun.

Good point but how about an Encore or Encore Pro hunter? Start with a .45 or .50 cal and instead of 2 weeks plus 3 days of deer firearm season, 4 weeks of early and reg muzzy plus the Jr. Hunting days, plus the 2 week plus 3 days of firearms or 6 weeks, 3 days of deer hunting! $398 buys any other caliber barrel you may want to switch to including 350. Good luck.

 

[lazarus]

lol. Yeah. And since it’s a Saturday, working stiffs lose out on nearly two weeks of hunting, or they have to burn vacation days. I get that it introduces pressure, but I’d be about 1,000% less annoyed if youth hunting day only meant public land was closed to those not 16 and under. Same sort of thing annoys me about no Sunday hunting, even on private land in my county. Especially archery. Look, if you or your animals are trespassing on my property we’ve got some serious issues. So why shouldn’t I be allowed to hunt on it on a Sunday? Especially archery. Public land I get. I can even, slightly get, no gun hunting on private on Sundays.

I am old and crotchety before I am actually old. Sucks.

 

[outrider58]

lol. Yeah. And since it’s a Saturday, working stiffs lose out on nearly two weeks of hunting, or they have to burn vacation days. I get that it introduces pressure, but I’d be about 1,000% less annoyed if youth hunting day only meant public land was closed to those not 16 and under. Same sort of thing annoys me about no Sunday hunting, even on private land in my county. Especially archery. Look, if you or your animals are trespassing on my property we’ve got some serious issues. So why should I be allowed to hunt on it on a Sunday? Especially archery. Public land I get. I can even, slightly get, no gun hunting on private on Sundays.

I am old and crotchety before I am actually old. Sucks.

I almost got shot by a yoot hunter once. It is absolutely the wrong weekend to have that hunt. F'ing Merryland. Never underestimate their ability to fvck things up.

 

[rgramjet]

Only if you are running it “slow” with a 50 grain pellet. My CVA Wolf with a 110gr charge of BH209 and 300gr .44 XTPs has about as much, or slightly more recoil velocity than my Remington 870 with 28” barrel and 3” turkey shot shells. It is a light scope on there, but a Wolf is a very light muzzleloader. I mean, I love it, but it is high recoil with a stout charge in it.

My buddy shoots 150gr out of his CVA Wolf. I have no desire to try that.

I think power of suggestion plays a part in "recoil impression" (within reason).

I feel like my 870 kicks harder than my CVA when shooting turkey rounds. It is an 18" barrel and synthetic so that plays a part.

 

[rgramjet]

I almost got shot by a yoot hunter once. It is absolutely the wrong weekend to have that hunt. F'ing Merryland. Never underestimate their ability to fvck things up.

Damn, thats worst nightmare. Was youth hunting from the ground?

 

[outrider58]

Damn, thats worst nightmare. Was youth hunting from the ground?

Yup. I was bow hunting on private property in an oak flat when some lone youth came walking along the field edge and jumped up a yearling. As the deer sprinted directly towards me, the kid opened up. I started yelling and waving my arms and he stopped shooting. I waved him over, but he decided retreat was his best option and scooted on out of there. I looked to my right and the deer was just standing there, staring at me while he tried to figure out what had just happened. I grabbed my bow and shot the deer. What the heck? My morning set was ruined anyway.

The two times I've came close to being shot by deer hunters both happened on private property.

 

[rgramjet]

In VA the youth must be accompanied by an adult. I'm sure its the same in MD. Was kid trespassing or related to the landowner? Hopefully a conversation was had.

Another reason why I like to be out early. Dont need to be mistaken for a deer as I'm walking to my stand.

 

[outrider58]

In VA the youth must be accompanied by an adult. I'm sure its the same in MD. Was kid trespassing or related to the landowner? Hopefully a conversation was had.

Another reason why I like to be out early. Dont need to be mistaken for a deer as I'm walking to my stand.

Yup. That "kid" had no business being out there alone, especially considering he was illegally hunting on MoCo property. He was one of the locals.

 

[[Kev308]]

I took the BCA 350 Legend upper out today. Got to the range late and didn’t put more than 20 rounds down range but I was impressed. Because I don’t have mags yet, it seemed my regular AR mags couldn’t take more than 3 without getting jumbled or popping out so I just loaded 3 at a time. I had 2 rounds that got jammed with the initial round and all follow ups went in fine. I polished the chamber and ramps this morning.

Here is a 4 shot group at 50 yards with a TRS 25 red dot. 1st shot was the flyer. I’ll probably put a low powered scope on it. Beyond 50 with the red dot may be pushing it for the boy.

He also didn’t think the recoil was excessive, but the hunting loads had some bite to it for sure.

 

[outrider58]

I took the BCA 350 Legend upper out today. Got to the range late and didn’t put more than 20 rounds down range but I was impressed. Because I don’t have mags yet, it seemed my regular AR mags couldn’t take more than 3 without getting jumbled or popping out so I just loaded 3 at a time. I had 2 rounds that got jammed with the initial round and all follow ups went in fine. I polished the chamber and ramps this morning.

Here is a 4 shot group at 50 yards with a TRS 25 red dot. 1st shot was the flyer. I’ll probably put a low powered scope on it. Beyond 50 with the red dot may be pushing it for the boy.

He also didn’t think the recoil was excessive, but the hunting loads had some bite to it for sure. View attachment 420612

Can't complain about that!

 

[lazarus]

My buddy shoots 150gr out of his CVA Wolf. I have no desire to try that.

I think power of suggestion plays a part in "recoil impression" (within reason).

I feel like my 870 kicks harder than my CVA when shooting turkey rounds. It is an 18" barrel and synthetic so that plays a part.

There it might. Mine is a wood stock and 28" barrel. That right there is a solid extra pound or so. I've got a real light scope and rings on that Wolf. I used to run fiber ghost ring on the Wolf. THAT was brutal recoil.

With the scope, it isn't bad for me. I can shoot it a fair amount off the bench. It is a nice cushy recoil pad. Early on, I owned it before I owned any guns. I got in to hunting before I got in to guns. I shot 46 rounds off a bench with 100gr of Pyro and 250gr .454 XTPs. My shoulder was black and blue and hurt for 2 weeks. That was Sans sites also.

Anyway, I have to remember to keep my jaw shot when I touch one off or it will recoil hard enough to cause my teeth to snap shut sometimes. I've learned that the hard way. Despite having less muzzle energy than a .30-06 (though not by much), it is more recoil energy. Have to account for 3-4gr of sabot, plus all of the gas being generated. By weight, my 105gr volumetric charge of BH209 is something like 70gr by weight. Versus something like 50gr that a .30-06 takes. And the gas pressure at uncorking for anything is generally a pretty significant amount of its recoil still. So in the end, you've got a bit more free recoil energy than a .30-06 in the case of my load (HEAVY bullet at moderate velocity, lots more gas, fairly light gun. Mine with light rings and scop is less than 7.5lbs).

Honestly, I'd love a break action like my wolf, with a slightly shorter barrel and probably chambering something like .300BO, threaded. I think that would be silly fun.

 

[outrider58]

My buddy shoots 150gr out of his CVA Wolf. I have no desire to try that.

I think power of suggestion plays a part in "recoil impression" (within reason).

I feel like my 870 kicks harder than my CVA when shooting turkey rounds. It is an 18" barrel and synthetic so that plays a part.

I always tell people new to ML shooting; smokeless powder guns are more like a punch, whereas black powder guns are more like a shove.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Can't complain about that!

Thats what I'm saying. My Alleged POS Bear creek deer upper shot tighter groups than my partners CZ 24 x 50 Athlon varmint 22 with oil finished stock and target grip that was 800 $ at 100 yds.
Talk about unimpressed with that Pos. lol.
Yeah I dont think Ill be doling out 3 +dollar a round sabots for my H&r HB polk stalk anymore.
Lucky for me if theirs a problem, theirs plenty of deer around and I'm not to proud to single load.
And those larger diameter projies are easy to make touch.
Specially with training wheels and a telescope. (sarcasm intended)
Things heavier than a rock and theirs no appreciable recoil I will say however.
Forgot to mention I bought cmmg mags with it.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

My son asked me if I would take him hunting this season, and we'll be taking a hunter safety course next month. Assuming we deer hunt there would be a good chance we would be in a shotgun only zone. Unless there are better suggestions, I'm probably getting a 20 gauge shotgun.

Questions:
Why are bolt action shotguns so costly?
Should I stay away from a single shot shotgun? They are pretty inexpensive.
or
Just keep it versatile and get a Mossberg pump and put on a red dot?

Kev, what county(s) will you likely take him Jr hunting?

Like many have said, a straight wall cartridge in a rifle, or a good Slug gun, like the Mossbergs, or if able to go in rifle county,
there are a few light kicking calibers that make great deer getters. I can't believe no one mentioned a 30-30 ( of course if he will hunt in rifle land) One buddy of mine who is now 69, he has harvested countless deer with a .243 Remington. 95-100 grain is a good choice.
Another good choice could be 100-115 gr .25-06.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

I totally love my Knight DISC Extreme 45 cal. It looks like this but I have a Stainless Varix2 Scope on mine.

 

[[Kev308]]

Kev, what county(s) will you likely take him Jr hunting?

Like many have said, a straight wall cartridge in a rifle, or a good Slug gun, like the Mossbergs, or if able to go in rifle county,
there are a few light kicking calibers that make great deer getters. I can't believe no one mentioned a 30-30 ( of course if he will hunt in rifle land) One buddy of mine who is now 69, he has harvested countless deer with a .243 Remington. 95-100 grain is a good choice.
Another good choice could be 100-115 gr .25-06.

We will most likely be in MoCo and Frederick. When we hunt together, I'm going to give my 44 mag hand gun a try and he could use the 350 legend. If that upper works out well I don't really see the need to be worried about straight vs bottle neck rifles anymore. I may buy a designated lower in the future and paint everything up in camo.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

We will most likely be in MoCo and Frederick. When we hunt together, I'm going to give my 44 mag hand gun a try and he could use the 350 legend. If that upper works out well I don't really see the need to be worried about straight vs bottle neck rifles anymore. I may buy a designated lower in the future and paint everything up in camo.

I see what you did there, Kev.

I wish you and son great success and the benefits of bonding while hunting together.

 

[[Kev308]]

The new magazines came today. Cycled 20 rounds thru the 5 rounder and had no feeding issues. True test will be when I actually fire the rounds. I'm also going to pick up a cheap scope this week.