Magnumite
Ultimate Member
Nice post, bigfoot44. I don’t cast but used commercial casters for my hatd cast bullets. Your natration was good.
did you mean 2-2-92 or 2-2-96 ?Typical generic " hard alloy " is 2% Tin 6% Antimony 92% lead .
Back in the Elmer Keith days , he wouid use a binary 1:16 tin - lead for cast HP , and 1:12 for really hard .
In the modern era , Tin is Expensive , and Antimony is more cost effective for hardness .
Downside is high % of Antimony can result in brittle . For more ductile alloyfor controlled expansion , a higher porportion of tin is helpful .
2-2-92 is non standard , but * seems * it would be a good compromise for a cast HP , without the extra $$ for tin only .
Simplified - 2-2 -92 is suitably hard for purpose , and might also expand acceptably .
Added - For many uses , 2-6-92 is harder than needed .
His math was only 3% offdid you mean 2-2-92 or 2-2-96 ?
Also what are your thoughts on lead bullets and rifle barrels? does powder coated bullets stop any lead fouling?
I guess I was leaning towards all lead (cast) bullets because the "Off the shelf" jacketed handgun bullets never performed as well as the all lead cast in MY inline muzzle loaders.Opps , finger slip/ brain fart ! That was 2-2-96 .
Switching gears for a moment :
Do you want to experement with
Cast bullets that expand * just so * at 1700 fps , for experemention's sake ? Or use simple , proven approach to kill deer with your desired bullet performance ?
Not facetious , and there is no " right answer " . Experementing with cast bullets is a fine endeavor , a hobby in itself , and at least equal parts Art as Science .
* Most * Cast Bullet Hunting afficanados take t he approach of Non Expanding big bore bullets with deep penetration , and subtlies of Nose and Shoulder design to tweak wound channel diameters .
A non expanding .44 SWC or LBT through and through both lungs of Bambi is definitely fatal . With shot placement and angle also getting heart or a shoulder in addition is even more better -er .
If you want to experementing with cast bullet expansion on purpose , * without casting your own * , your linked bullets are probably your best off the shelf starting point . Experiment with velocities from 1300 on up to Max , testing as you go with your preferred test mediums , to find the sweet spot of desired expansion .
The terminal performance will be your controlling parameters , not an arbitrary velocity target .
I'm not discouraging you . That sounds like a fun project , and if I had more of a Life , I'd jump into it . Cast HP from revolvers has some development track records . Like wise cast FP/ RN from Rifle caliber leverguns .
OR , just load either Gold Dot 240 JHP , or XTP 240 JHP .
I guess I was leaning towards all lead (cast) bullets because the "Off the shelf" jacketed handgun bullets never performed as well as the all lead cast in MY inline muzzle loaders.
That said,, I do not want to re-invent the wheel when it comes to loading my own. I have just started reading in depth,, and plenty of info to use as a starting point.
I was surprised to read that the faster ~200 grain bullets appear more damaging and quicker killing than the slower, heavier 250-300 grain bullets.
I want some expansion, but want pass through (blood trail) from high angle shots.
Then ofcourse balancing desired expansion and speed and little drop in 100 yards as possible,, a 3 sided equation
Bigfoot is giving great advice in his post.Opps , finger slip/ brain fart ! That was 2-2-96 .
Switching gears for a moment :
Do you want to experement with
Cast bullets that expand * just so * at 1700 fps , for experemention's sake ? Or use simple , proven approach to kill deer with your desired bullet performance ?
Not facetious , and there is no " right answer " . Experementing with cast bullets is a fine endeavor , a hobby in itself , and at least equal parts Art as Science .
* Most * Cast Bullet Hunting afficanados take t he approach of Non Expanding big bore bullets with deep penetration , and subtlies of Nose and Shoulder design to tweak wound channel diameters .
A non expanding .44 SWC or LBT through and through both lungs of Bambi is definitely fatal . With shot placement and angle also getting heart or a shoulder in addition is even more better -er .
If you want to experementing with cast bullet expansion on purpose , * without casting your own * , your linked bullets are probably your best off the shelf starting point . Experiment with velocities from 1300 on up to Max , testing as you go with your preferred test mediums , to find the sweet spot of desired expansion .
The terminal performance will be your controlling parameters , not an arbitrary velocity target .
I'm not discouraging you . That sounds like a fun project , and if I had more of a Life , I'd jump into it . Cast HP from revolvers has some development track records . Like wise cast FP/ RN from Rifle caliber leverguns .
OR , just load either Gold Dot 240 JHP , or XTP 240 JHP .
I did some more reading last night,, which just leads to more questions.Opps , finger slip/ brain fart ! That was 2-2-96 .
Switching gears for a moment :
Do you want to experement with
Cast bullets that expand * just so * at 1700 fps , for experemention's sake ? Or use simple , proven approach to kill deer with your desired bullet performance ?
Not facetious , and there is no " right answer " . Experementing with cast bullets is a fine endeavor , a hobby in itself , and at least equal parts Art as Science .
* Most * Cast Bullet Hunting afficanados take t he approach of Non Expanding big bore bullets with deep penetration , and subtlies of Nose and Shoulder design to tweak wound channel diameters .
A non expanding .44 SWC or LBT through and through both lungs of Bambi is definitely fatal . With shot placement and angle also getting heart or a shoulder in addition is even more better -er .
If you want to experementing with cast bullet expansion on purpose , * without casting your own * , your linked bullets are probably your best off the shelf starting point . Experiment with velocities from 1300 on up to Max , testing as you go with your preferred test mediums , to find the sweet spot of desired expansion .
The terminal performance will be your controlling parameters , not an arbitrary velocity target .
I'm not discouraging you . That sounds like a fun project , and if I had more of a Life , I'd jump into it . Cast HP from revolvers has some development track records . Like wise cast FP/ RN from Rifle caliber leverguns .
OR , just load either Gold Dot 240 JHP , or XTP 240 JHP .
Take a look at Cast Boolits Forum they have a Hunting With CB's thread as well as all things about bullet casting.I did some more reading last night,, which just leads to more questions.
I have opened my mind to using jacked bullets or cast.
I find little to no reviews of performance on individual cast bullets (on deer)
ALL reviews and descriptions of bullets are at pistol velocities.
Things like "Expands fully at 44 special loads"
Originally I was just going to buy buffalo bore "deer grenade" rounds (240 gr hp), but they are to long to cycle in a Henry.
Doing some reading here, it sounds like a 200-220grn bullet would serve me best for my 0-120 yard deer hunting if I keep the velocities up,,, : https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.44+Remington+Magnum.html
So I am down to choosing a 200-220 grain bullet,, but trying to find reliable information on performance on deer at rifle velocities for these jacketed or cast bullets is challenging.
I have read I should be after a jacketed soft point for rifle velocities,, not a HP (If I go with a jacketed bullet)
Any recommendations on groups/forums dealing with this specific subject?
It’s always 3% antimony. Always.Typical generic " hard alloy " is 2% Tin 6% Antimony 92% lead .
Back in the Elmer Keith days , he wouid use a binary 1:16 tin - lead for cast HP , and 1:12 for really hard .
In the modern era , Tin is Expensive , and Antimony is more cost effective for hardness .
Downside is high % of Antimony can result in brittle . For more ductile alloyfor controlled expansion , a higher porportion of tin is helpful .
2-2-92 is non standard , but * seems * it would be a good compromise for a cast HP , without the extra $$ for tin only .
Simplified - 2-2 -92 is suitably hard for purpose , and might also expand acceptably .
Added - For many uses , 2-6-92 is harder than needed .
Second that. There's a lot of info there and knowledgeTake a look at Cast Boolits Forum they have a Hunting With CB's thread as well as all things about bullet casting.
That gentleman proved a lot of amusement lol.It’s always 3% antimony. Always.
It’s always 3% antimony. Always.
Here you go. Good place to start.I plan on diving into the Cast Boolits Forum.
But as with everything,, Don't acquire critical information off of an internet forum.
1) So what would be a good book for load data for cast bullets, specifically rifle loads.
2) What would be a good book to get that dives into cast bullet metallurgy and coatings (alloys and how fast each can go, reactions of the metal hitting game, etc)
I plan on diving into the Cast Boolits Forum.
But as with everything,, Don't acquire critical information off of an internet forum.
1) So what would be a good book for load data for cast bullets, specifically rifle loads.
2) What would be a good book to get that dives into cast bullet metallurgy and coatings (alloys and how fast each can go, reactions of the metal hitting game, etc)