loading 44mag

[Magnumite]

Nice post, bigfoot44. I don’t cast but used commercial casters for my hatd cast bullets. Your natration was good.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Typical generic " hard alloy " is 2% Tin 6% Antimony 92% lead .

Back in the Elmer Keith days , he wouid use a binary 1:16 tin - lead for cast HP , and 1:12 for really hard .

In the modern era , Tin is Expensive , and Antimony is more cost effective for hardness .

Downside is high % of Antimony can result in brittle . For more ductile alloyfor controlled expansion , a higher porportion of tin is helpful .

2-2-92 is non standard , but * seems * it would be a good compromise for a cast HP , without the extra $$ for tin only .


Simplified - 2-2 -92 is suitably hard for purpose , and might also expand acceptably .

Added - For many uses , 2-6-92 is harder than needed .

did you mean 2-2-92 or 2-2-96 ?

Also what are your thoughts on lead bullets and rifle barrels? does powder coated bullets stop any lead fouling?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Opps , finger slip/ brain fart ! That was 2-2-96 .

Switching gears for a moment :

Do you want to experement with
Cast bullets that expand * just so * at 1700 fps , for experemention's sake ? Or use simple , proven approach to kill deer with your desired bullet performance ?

Not facetious , and there is no " right answer " . Experementing with cast bullets is a fine endeavor , a hobby in itself , and at least equal parts Art as Science .

* Most * Cast Bullet Hunting afficanados take t he approach of Non Expanding big bore bullets with deep penetration , and subtlies of Nose and Shoulder design to tweak wound channel diameters .

A non expanding .44 SWC or LBT through and through both lungs of Bambi is definitely fatal . With shot placement and angle also getting heart or a shoulder in addition is even more better -er .

If you want to experementing with cast bullet expansion on purpose , * without casting your own * , your linked bullets are probably your best off the shelf starting point . Experiment with velocities from 1300 on up to Max , testing as you go with your preferred test mediums , to find the sweet spot of desired expansion .

The terminal performance will be your controlling parameters , not an arbitrary velocity target .

I'm not discouraging you . That sounds like a fun project , and if I had more of a Life , I'd jump into it . Cast HP from revolvers has some development track records . Like wise cast FP/ RN from Rifle caliber leverguns .

OR , just load either Gold Dot 240 JHP , or XTP 240 JHP .

 

[pitpawten]

did you mean 2-2-92 or 2-2-96 ?

Also what are your thoughts on lead bullets and rifle barrels? does powder coated bullets stop any lead fouling?

His math was only 3% off

 

[Slackdaddy]

Opps , finger slip/ brain fart ! That was 2-2-96 .

Switching gears for a moment :

Do you want to experement with
Cast bullets that expand * just so * at 1700 fps , for experemention's sake ? Or use simple , proven approach to kill deer with your desired bullet performance ?

Not facetious , and there is no " right answer " . Experementing with cast bullets is a fine endeavor , a hobby in itself , and at least equal parts Art as Science .

* Most * Cast Bullet Hunting afficanados take t he approach of Non Expanding big bore bullets with deep penetration , and subtlies of Nose and Shoulder design to tweak wound channel diameters .

A non expanding .44 SWC or LBT through and through both lungs of Bambi is definitely fatal . With shot placement and angle also getting heart or a shoulder in addition is even more better -er .

If you want to experementing with cast bullet expansion on purpose , * without casting your own * , your linked bullets are probably your best off the shelf starting point . Experiment with velocities from 1300 on up to Max , testing as you go with your preferred test mediums , to find the sweet spot of desired expansion .

The terminal performance will be your controlling parameters , not an arbitrary velocity target .

I'm not discouraging you . That sounds like a fun project , and if I had more of a Life , I'd jump into it . Cast HP from revolvers has some development track records . Like wise cast FP/ RN from Rifle caliber leverguns .

OR , just load either Gold Dot 240 JHP , or XTP 240 JHP .

I guess I was leaning towards all lead (cast) bullets because the "Off the shelf" jacketed handgun bullets never performed as well as the all lead cast in MY inline muzzle loaders.

That said,, I do not want to re-invent the wheel when it comes to loading my own. I have just started reading in depth,, and plenty of info to use as a starting point.
I was surprised to read that the faster ~200 grain bullets appear more damaging and quicker killing than the slower, heavier 250-300 grain bullets.
I want some expansion, but want pass through (blood trail) from high angle shots.

Then ofcourse balancing desired expansion and speed and little drop in 100 yards as possible,, a 3 sided equation

 

[Brickman301]

I guess I was leaning towards all lead (cast) bullets because the "Off the shelf" jacketed handgun bullets never performed as well as the all lead cast in MY inline muzzle loaders.

That said,, I do not want to re-invent the wheel when it comes to loading my own. I have just started reading in depth,, and plenty of info to use as a starting point.
I was surprised to read that the faster ~200 grain bullets appear more damaging and quicker killing than the slower, heavier 250-300 grain bullets.
I want some expansion, but want pass through (blood trail) from high angle shots.

Then ofcourse balancing desired expansion and speed and little drop in 100 yards as possible,, a 3 sided equation

Opps , finger slip/ brain fart ! That was 2-2-96 .

Switching gears for a moment :

Do you want to experement with
Cast bullets that expand * just so * at 1700 fps , for experemention's sake ? Or use simple , proven approach to kill deer with your desired bullet performance ?

Not facetious , and there is no " right answer " . Experementing with cast bullets is a fine endeavor , a hobby in itself , and at least equal parts Art as Science .

* Most * Cast Bullet Hunting afficanados take t he approach of Non Expanding big bore bullets with deep penetration , and subtlies of Nose and Shoulder design to tweak wound channel diameters .

A non expanding .44 SWC or LBT through and through both lungs of Bambi is definitely fatal . With shot placement and angle also getting heart or a shoulder in addition is even more better -er .

If you want to experementing with cast bullet expansion on purpose , * without casting your own * , your linked bullets are probably your best off the shelf starting point . Experiment with velocities from 1300 on up to Max , testing as you go with your preferred test mediums , to find the sweet spot of desired expansion .

The terminal performance will be your controlling parameters , not an arbitrary velocity target .

I'm not discouraging you . That sounds like a fun project , and if I had more of a Life , I'd jump into it . Cast HP from revolvers has some development track records . Like wise cast FP/ RN from Rifle caliber leverguns .

OR , just load either Gold Dot 240 JHP , or XTP 240 JHP .

Bigfoot is giving great advice in his post.
With the 44 mag, I’d probably use a wide meplat bullet. You won’t get the expansion but you’ll get plenty of penetration.

I do however like to use cast hollow points for deer hunting in my 45-70. I cast my hollow points in pure lead. After being powder coated they weigh 341 grains. I’ve pushed them faster, but have settled on a load that moves them around 1,900FPS. I’m not sure how much they expand because I have never recovered a bullet yet. Every deer I have shot, even at odd angles has been a complete pass through. I shot 4 deer with this load last season, 3 fell were they stood, one went 25 yards.

This year I hope to take a deer with my 30-06 using a 175 grain hollow point cast bullet. This bullet is made using straight wheel weight lead, gas check and powder coated and has a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps. This will be a short range load, but I am curious to see how it performs.

Now I want to work up cast hunting loads for my Henry rifle in 45 Colt. maybe next year…..
I’d like to use a 255 grain bullet, as I already have that mold.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Opps , finger slip/ brain fart ! That was 2-2-96 .

Switching gears for a moment :

Do you want to experement with
Cast bullets that expand * just so * at 1700 fps , for experemention's sake ? Or use simple , proven approach to kill deer with your desired bullet performance ?

Not facetious , and there is no " right answer " . Experementing with cast bullets is a fine endeavor , a hobby in itself , and at least equal parts Art as Science .

* Most * Cast Bullet Hunting afficanados take t he approach of Non Expanding big bore bullets with deep penetration , and subtlies of Nose and Shoulder design to tweak wound channel diameters .

A non expanding .44 SWC or LBT through and through both lungs of Bambi is definitely fatal . With shot placement and angle also getting heart or a shoulder in addition is even more better -er .

If you want to experementing with cast bullet expansion on purpose , * without casting your own * , your linked bullets are probably your best off the shelf starting point . Experiment with velocities from 1300 on up to Max , testing as you go with your preferred test mediums , to find the sweet spot of desired expansion .

The terminal performance will be your controlling parameters , not an arbitrary velocity target .

I'm not discouraging you . That sounds like a fun project , and if I had more of a Life , I'd jump into it . Cast HP from revolvers has some development track records . Like wise cast FP/ RN from Rifle caliber leverguns .

OR , just load either Gold Dot 240 JHP , or XTP 240 JHP .

I did some more reading last night,, which just leads to more questions.

I have opened my mind to using jacked bullets or cast.
I find little to no reviews of performance on individual cast bullets (on deer)
ALL reviews and descriptions of bullets are at pistol velocities.
Things like "Expands fully at 44 special loads"

Originally I was just going to buy buffalo bore "deer grenade" rounds (240 gr hp), but they are to long to cycle in a Henry.
Doing some reading here, it sounds like a 200-220grn bullet would serve me best for my 0-120 yard deer hunting if I keep the velocities up,,, : https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.44+Remington+Magnum.html

So I am down to choosing a 200-220 grain bullet,, but trying to find reliable information on performance on deer at rifle velocities for these jacketed or cast bullets is challenging.
I have read I should be after a jacketed soft point for rifle velocities,, not a HP (If I go with a jacketed bullet)

Any recommendations on groups/forums dealing with this specific subject?

 

[Blacksmith101]

I did some more reading last night,, which just leads to more questions.

I have opened my mind to using jacked bullets or cast.
I find little to no reviews of performance on individual cast bullets (on deer)
ALL reviews and descriptions of bullets are at pistol velocities.
Things like "Expands fully at 44 special loads"

Originally I was just going to buy buffalo bore "deer grenade" rounds (240 gr hp), but they are to long to cycle in a Henry.
Doing some reading here, it sounds like a 200-220grn bullet would serve me best for my 0-120 yard deer hunting if I keep the velocities up,,, : https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.44+Remington+Magnum.html

So I am down to choosing a 200-220 grain bullet,, but trying to find reliable information on performance on deer at rifle velocities for these jacketed or cast bullets is challenging.
I have read I should be after a jacketed soft point for rifle velocities,, not a HP (If I go with a jacketed bullet)

Any recommendations on groups/forums dealing with this specific subject?

Take a look at Cast Boolits Forum they have a Hunting With CB's thread as well as all things about bullet casting.

Cast Boolits

This is the dedicated cast bullet forum!

castboolits.gunloads.com

 

[teratos]

Typical generic " hard alloy " is 2% Tin 6% Antimony 92% lead .

Back in the Elmer Keith days , he wouid use a binary 1:16 tin - lead for cast HP , and 1:12 for really hard .

In the modern era , Tin is Expensive , and Antimony is more cost effective for hardness .

Downside is high % of Antimony can result in brittle . For more ductile alloyfor controlled expansion , a higher porportion of tin is helpful .

2-2-92 is non standard , but * seems * it would be a good compromise for a cast HP , without the extra $$ for tin only .


Simplified - 2-2 -92 is suitably hard for purpose , and might also expand acceptably .

Added - For many uses , 2-6-92 is harder than needed .

It’s always 3% antimony. Always.

 

[Rockzilla]

Take a look at Cast Boolits Forum they have a Hunting With CB's thread as well as all things about bullet casting.

Cast Boolits

This is the dedicated cast bullet forum!

castboolits.gunloads.com

Second that. There's a lot of info there and knowledge

-Rock

 

[44man]

It’s always 3% antimony. Always.

That gentleman proved a lot of amusement lol.

He also was difficult to deal with, at least in my experience

 

[Biggfoot44]

It’s always 3% antimony. Always.

Opps , my bad .

 

[Slackdaddy]

I plan on diving into the Cast Boolits Forum.
But as with everything,, Don't acquire critical information off of an internet forum.

1) So what would be a good book for load data for cast bullets, specifically rifle loads.
2) What would be a good book to get that dives into cast bullet metallurgy and coatings (alloys and how fast each can go, reactions of the metal hitting game, etc)

 

[Brickman301]

I plan on diving into the Cast Boolits Forum.
But as with everything,, Don't acquire critical information off of an internet forum.

1) So what would be a good book for load data for cast bullets, specifically rifle loads.
2) What would be a good book to get that dives into cast bullet metallurgy and coatings (alloys and how fast each can go, reactions of the metal hitting game, etc)

Here you go. Good place to start.

https://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Bullet%20Casting/Lyman%20Cast%20Bullet%20Handbook%20-%203rd%20Edition%20-%201980%20-%20Reduce.pdf

 

[Magnumite]

I don’t cast. but know lyman has always been a cast bullet mainstay. They print a book, here os the first new update in 30 years. Mike Venturino was always writing for the gun mags back then. He was big into lead loads.

The others probably have better references but here goes…

Lyman 4th Edition Cast Bullet Handbook (softcover)

-SOFTCOVER Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook -the long awaited 4th Edition is here! This is the first new Cast Bullet Handbook from Lyman in 30 years. Includes data for all Lyman Moulds, plus additional data for select RCBS, Redding and Lee Moulds. Written by well-known cast bullet authority, Mike...

www.titanreloading.com

 

[Biggfoot44]

I plan on diving into the Cast Boolits Forum.
But as with everything,, Don't acquire critical information off of an internet forum.

1) So what would be a good book for load data for cast bullets, specifically rifle loads.
2) What would be a good book to get that dives into cast bullet metallurgy and coatings (alloys and how fast each can go, reactions of the metal hitting game, etc)

If there are ever exceptions to " don't aquire critical information from the internet " , it's select sources on bullet casting.

Cast Boolits is outstanding depth of knowledge, and the membership will question any obvious BS in a kind of peer review .

In article format;, the articles at LA Silouette Club website ( in addition to handloading thereof ) the articles by Glen Fryxell ( spelling because I didn't look it up right now , but that's close) has more about bullet alloy metallurgy than I've ever seen in one spot .

Dead tree in instruction manual format -

Alternate cell phone had issues ; didn't want to loose initial typing; so posted incomplete. Will complete in cpl hours .

I'm back .

Instruction Manual - Lyman Cast Bullet Manual . The older ones as much as the current .

Books in narritive form - Everything by Paul Mathews . ( Available from Wolfe Publishing , and they have multiple other titles on the subject(s) .

*********************

Jacketed from Magmun Pistol Cal rifles -

The primary source is Brian Pearce . Nothing in book form , but as columns and features in Wolfe Publishing's Handloader , Rifle , and Sucuessful Hunter , mostly Handoader . Primarily a Cast Bullet Guy , he did hunt extensively with jacket also . Big Game being in the context of Mule Deer and Elk . And primarily with loads loaded up to traditional levels of 40/ 42 K CUP , not the attenuated 35/ 36 K PSI .

In summary , the list is short . Bullets that perform well at 1800 plus :

XTP 240 JHP
Gold Dot 240 JHP
Speer " 3/4 Jacket " JHP and SP. But they're long ago discontinued.

Honorable Mention - R-P " Scallop Jacket " 240 JHP. Shortly after the introduction of the Ruger .44 Carbine , R-P invested previously unheard of R&D $ to develope a bullet that would work for deer hunting equally well from a Carbine as from a long bbl revolver , and the result was pretty good .

Still used in R-P factory ammo , is also periodically available as a component .