Let the 8th day release begin!

[FWPhoto]

Here are the numbers to the ATF as well for verification.

202-648-7090 ext 5. This number will get you to a "specialist" in this department. I cant find the number i recieved a call back from. However if you find my post from 5/1/2013 i posted the number and ALL this information.

It is confirmation from MSP and the ATF. There are no questions about it.

The liability is on MSP to retrieve a firearm from a disapproved person. Confirmed by MSP and ATF.
MD law requires 7 day wait from the time the paperwork is submitted until the time of pickup. Federal law is 3 days. NO MATTER IF A NTN HAS BEEN RECIEVED. The wait time for federal is for a NTN. IF there is no answer within 3 days the firearm may be released. Being in compliance with MD law AUTOMATICALLY makes you in compliance with FEDERAL.
AGAIN CONFIRMED BY MSP AND ATF.

The atf does not care about this situation. Bc of automatic compliance built into MD law.
Please, all those doubting. Get your minds out of this liberal, guns are bad, maryland mindset. Please, by all means, email Thomas Williams, call that number i listed for the ATF. Challenge my information. I guarentee though you will find i am correct. Also, read the transfer paperwork. Read the laws associated with the Brady act. All this is again in compliance with that as well. Its all there, all you gotta do is look at it, and get your mind outa the md mindset.

Will All Pawn listen to you? They wont listen to anyone else. I'm on your side dear. I have 2 firearms being held hostage there. The first one is 80+ days and the 2nd is 30-40 days now. If I could storm in and take them I would lol.

 

[04RWon]

I understand and appreciate you copying the email here but that wont mean a hill of beans to my FFL. Mine is All Pawn and he has stated here in the forum that he will not be releasing anything until the paperwork comes back. Should I go into further debt hiring a lawyer to file a charge against them to get my possession that's being held against the law? I'm just as pissed if not more pissed than everyone else but what am I supposed to do when my FFL doesn't understand the law the same way others do?

If you haven't seen it by now, this is what was posted here from them.

"I can tell you without hesitation that the MSP did NOT authorize, ordain, give permission for 8th day gun releases. The email that was sent to all dealers on 5-31 was nothing more than an explanation of the procedure regarding the paperwork submission for guns that have been released early. I can also tell you that you would be hard pressed to get a governmental agency to put something like that in writing especially the MSP. Some dealers are releasing SOME guns early ie.- Law enforcement, military, designated collectors, and people with a history with that particular shop but an all out release for everyone probably not.....As a dealer I can tell you that the potential civil liability isn't worth the risk. Lets say a dealer releases a weapon to Joe Smith and Joe Smith takes the gun home and let say someone breaks into Joes house and Joe shoots that person and lets say it was a perfect, justified, text book shooting and he injures or kills the person. I would be willing to bet that the family of the criminal or the criminal himself will sue everyone involved...Joe Smith, MSP, Firearms Dealer who released the weapon etc. So while it is frustrating waiting for your weapon can you really blame the dealer for trying to be cautious and protecting their butts."

Your FFL is wrong and i believe i replied to his post. Theres really nothing you can do. Once you finally get your firearm, never go back. Maybe hell learn the laws he should know once his buisness starts going down the drain. Im looking for another ffl to transfer my purchase from the cop shop. There is no reason he should be worried about a majority of his customers. We wouldnt be eligable for the blue label progam if we were prohibited. Meaning PD, FD, Mil. I couldnt maintain my FD membership if i had anything wrong. I couldnt maintain my EMT if i had anything wrong. I couldnt have my secret clearance if i had anything wrong. I couldnt be getting upgraded to a top secret if i had anything wrong. I wouldnt have my va non res permit if i had anything wrong. Im processing for ut and fl as well. I mean this shit is rediculous. Everyone is so scared of the msp for no reason. If they can be that tyrannical that ffl's must be worried that its only a matter of time before something else happens. If msp can be that tyrannical and make laws and rega up then the citizens and ffls need to step up and so something about it.

 

[04RWon]

Heres my post from 5/1 with the number that i recieved the call back from:


Just spoke with the ATF. I got the phone call from 202-648-9999. He confirmed that MSP is correct, after 7 days the firearms may be released. He explained that MD law is more restrictive than Federal so as long as the FFL is compliant with MD, he is ok. He also confirmed that it IS MSP and ATF that will come get the firearm. However, they WILL NOT be kicking down your door. It actually is them saying you cant own it, who do you want to transfer it too. He would not give me his name, but that is the number I got the call from. I do know he is the Specialist because I was transferred to that persons voicemail when I called 202 648 7090.

He also said this is all compliant within the Brady Law. He wont give anything on official letterhead because its already printed in the laws.

 

[FWPhoto]

Heres my post from 5/1 with the number that i recieved the call back from:


Just spoke with the ATF. I got the phone call from 202-648-9999. He confirmed that MSP is correct, after 7 days the firearms may be released. He explained that MD law is more restrictive than Federal so as long as the FFL is compliant with MD, he is ok. He also confirmed that it IS MSP and ATF that will come get the firearm. However, they WILL NOT be kicking down your door. It actually is them saying you cant own it, who do you want to transfer it too. He would not give me his name, but that is the number I got the call from. I do know he is the Specialist because I was transferred to that persons voicemail when I called 202 648 7090.

He also said this is all compliant within the Brady Law. He wont give anything on official letterhead because its already printed in the laws.

Thanks for posting it again. I was skimming the forum with no luck.

 

[04RWon]

Thanks for posting it again. I was skimming the forum with no luck.

No prob, Im going to make a post with the email and all the info from the ATF in it and copy it into each thread regarding this nonsense.

 

[FWPhoto]

The Delegate posted a blog about our grief and that MSP letter today. He confirms what all you guys are saying too. He does a nice job of explaining and citing the law, as well. Now, can we get the apprehensive FFL's to read this along with the info from 04RWon? The Delegate even asks that this gets shared with the FFL's. Maybe this will help clear up some confusion. We've waited far too long and now it seems that we shouldn't have had to wait to begin with.

http://delegatemike.com/?p=3653

 

[04RWon]

Here is all the information I received from my research. Please, please, PLEASE! Challenge my information and use the numbers and email address to contact these people and verify the information. It does not get any easier that this.

Quick summary:
-MD law requires 7 days from the day the paperwork is submitted until the day the firearm is picked up.
-MSP has 7 days to issue a disapproval. If there is no response within 7 days, the firearm may be released.
-Federal law requires 3 days to receive a response for NICS. If no response is received, the firearm may be released.
-It is MSP's problem to retrieve a firearm from a prohibited person. This is not a kick down the door at midnight process. MSP will contact the person and ask who they would like to transfer the firearm too. (Im sure if someone on the FBI's most wanted list bought a firearm the door kicking may be an option)
-MD law automatically puts you in compliance with Federal law.




ATF:

On 5/1/2013, I spoke with the ATF. I called 202-648-7090 EXT 5. I was transferred the voicemail for a "Specialist". I received a call back from the phone number 202-648-9999. He confirmed that MSP is correct, after 7 days the firearms may be released. He explained that MD law is more restrictive than Federal. So as long as the FFL is compliant with MD, he is ok. He also confirmed that it IS MSP and ATF that will come get the firearm. However, they WILL NOT be kicking down your door. It actually is them saying you cant own it, who do you want to transfer it too. He would not give me his name. He told me the same thing that Thomas Williams from MSP told me. That all this information is on the paperwork, the NICS website, and I believe the ATF website as well. He also said this is all compliant within the Brady Law. He wont give anything on official letterhead because its already printed in the laws. REPEAT THIS IS ALREADY PRINTED IN THE CURRENT LAWS. HE COULD NOT STRESS TO ME ENOUGH THAT FFL'S SHOULD KNOW THESE LAWS SINCE THEY ARE SUCH A BIG DEAL FOR THEIR BUISNESS.


MSP

Here are the emails I exchanged with Thomas Williams from MSP. You can see his email address, the date, and time of the emails. Please, feel free to challenge this info and contact him yourself.

Why dont you have your ffl call?

On Apr 30, 2013 9:21 PM, <xxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
I appreciate your assistance. Just one more question. I just want to be clear. This means that a NICS transaction number has not been aquired by the 7th day and its still legal for the FFL to release the regulated firearm. I know this is slightly repetitive to what I have asked but this is basically how my FFL asked me to word it.
Thanks,
John


On Apr 30, 2013, at 21:03, Thomas Williams -State Police- <thomas.williams@maryland.gov> wrote:

The ffl is well aware of the law. He knows what he is doing and in his defense he does not wish to release a firearm unless he has some assurances the person is not prohibited. Your ffl already has the phone number for the Licensing Division as well as the contact persons information. He is certainly welcome to call me but he already knows the answers.
Tom

On Apr 30, 2013 8:30 PM, <xxxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you for the reply. Would it be possible to recieve that on a document to show to my FFL? Or possibly a contact phone number incase they have any questions?
Thanks,
John


On Apr 30, 2013, at 19:51, Thomas Williams -State Police- <thomas.williams@maryland.gov> wrote:

That is correct. A licensed firearms dealer may release the firearm after 7 days if they have not received a hold or disapproval from the MSP.

On Apr 30, 2013 4:45 PM, <xxxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
Good afternoon sir,

I sent an email to you previously, however I'm not sure that it went through. If it did, I'm sorry to have sent this one as well. I am inquiring about a email that was posted that is said to be from you. The email states that Maryland FFL's may release a regulated firearm after the 7 day wait without getting a response from Maryland State Police. I dont believe everything I see on the internet and wanted to go to the source to verify the information. If this is true, would it be possible to get official documentation, perhaps on Maryland State Police letterhead and get it to FFL's? I would also like volunteer my services to assist in any way of getting this information out there or assisting in any way with the transfer application process. Thank you for your time, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks,
John

 

[fleaman64]

Maryland is so fvcked up...

 

[swinokur]

Wonder if Emily Miller would write an article on this mess?

 

[Mr H]

Wonder if Emily Miller would write an article on this mess?

She got her gun.



But yes, to have her chime in would be wonderful.

 

[swinokur]

Maybe someone could drop a dime.

 

[FWPhoto]

Just curious....has anyone here had a wait longer than 7 days prior to the Sandy Hook incident? If yes, did the FFL's release the firearm on the 8th then? I have two from a couple of years ago and I think it may have taken 6 or 7 but not over that though. The reason I ask is if they released then, what has changed except the amount guns on the backlog? It's easy to not get upset if they have always acted this way but if this madness made them change then that's a bit disheartening. Like I said, just curious if in this thread had a wait longer than 7 before that freak walked into that school.

 

[bobthefisher]

Created a Google Map with all the dealers that are releasing, along with their information and release policy. Find the closet one next to you and BUY SOME GUNS!!!

Google Maps, Dealers Releasing without MSP 77R Return:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=210876610691894564447.0004de6d47ee310e8e1d9

We've also posted on the Live Update of Dealers Release Policy thread (one stop shop):
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=121404

 

[bogus130]

Created a Google Map with all the dealers that are releasing, along with their information and release policy. Find the closet one next to you and BUY SOME GUNS!!!

Google Maps, Dealers Releasing without MSP 77R Return:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=210876610691894564447.0004de6d47ee310e8e1d9

We've also posted on the Live Update of Dealers Release Policy thread (one stop shop):
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=121404

Love the google maps, thanks a lot!!

 

[Doug S]

Created a Google Map with all the dealers that are releasing, along with their information and release policy. Find the closet one next to you and BUY SOME GUNS!!!

Google Maps, Dealers Releasing without MSP 77R Return:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=210876610691894564447.0004de6d47ee310e8e1d9

We've also posted on the Live Update of Dealers Release Policy thread (one stop shop):
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=121404

That is just so kicka$$ on so many levels, thanks for taking the time to put it together!

If any of them have a HK USP 40 S&W in stock, I'll be there today! Time to get on the phones...

 

[iH8DemLibz]

This is a great idea and a great map. Thank you.

I find it ammusing that no FFL's inside the beltway and no FFL's just outside the beltway are releasing early.

I wonder why that is???

 

[orangeflameshadow]

I see on Google map that no one on the Eastern Shore is releasing on 8th day. Very disappointed!

 

[swinokur]

This is a great idea and a great map. Thank you.

I find it ammusing that no FFL's inside the beltway and no FFL's just outside the beltway are releasing early.

I wonder why that is???

Which Beltway? There ar 2 of them in MD.

 

[commiezapr]

Created a Google Map with all the dealers that are releasing, along with their information and release policy. Find the closet one next to you and BUY SOME GUNS!!!

Google Maps, Dealers Releasing without MSP 77R Return:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=210876610691894564447.0004de6d47ee310e8e1d9

We've also posted on the Live Update of Dealers Release Policy thread (one stop shop):
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=121404

Your info on Accuracy Clinic 'Uncle Frank' is old, his new place of business is in Poolesville. His email address has changed as wel.

Frank P Och
19640 Fisher Ave. Poolesville, MD 20837
frankpoch@verizon.net
301-929-1727

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I just spoke with Bass Pro. AGAIN!

They are NOT releasing early because the ATF said it is "Against the Law".

I am not at all surprised by this decision due to the demographic nature of their location.