LEOSA Reform Act legislation in the 2018 died

[Neot]

Why is it only active and retired police? My brother was a Baltimore City cop for 12 years, he quit the force under protest. He had multiple death threats and a few physical attacks from people he had previously put in jail who came looking for him. He was denied a MD CCW because there wasn't a specific credible threat and couldn't use the LEOSA laws to protect himself. That's one of the reasons he moved to Utah.

I can't speak for the MD CCW because they are their own entity and grant CCW licenses based on a screwed up logic. However, under HR218 he is eligible for the program. You must do 10+ years of service or be retired. It was at 15 years but was lessened to 10 a few years back. He needs a document stating he did that amount of service from Baltimore City and then he can go and do his once a year qualification. Most agencies will issue former officers/agents a card with their photo on it and the start of employment date on it.

 

[ktm rider]

"Being any type of LEO makes you more if a a target out in society"
That's a steep claim. You're stating as fact that off duty LEOs are crime victims at a higher rate than non-LEO citizens?
Or stating that LEOs FEEL that they're at a greater risk to become a crime victim than non-LEO citizens?

Is the data on this actually compiled somewhere?

OK let me ask you this. Do you think these two convicts who approached me at the local gas station would of approached you? No, they recognized me from work and these guys aint' what you would call model citizens.
Look Me, and many others are working inside these institutions with thousands of convicts daily. Not to mentions city and county jails along with all the police that put them there.

We are bound to run into them once they hit the street also. I have been told more than once " I better never see you on the street" How many convicted murders, gang bangers, rapists etc.. have told you that?

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Except the equal protection doesn't seem to apply to the 2a because the courts won't enforce it.

Can it be a step in the right direction ? It takes time. Women didn't always have the right to vote.

 

[FrankOceanXray]

"Being any type of LEO makes you more if a a target out in society"
That's a steep claim. You're stating as fact that off duty LEOs are crime victims at a higher rate than non-LEO citizens?
Or stating that LEOs FEEL that they're at a greater risk to become a crime victim than non-LEO citizens?

Is the data on this actually compiled somewhere?

Probably not as people are people. They don't ask for their collection purposes are you a LEO or a dentist or a steamfitter.

 

[Bob A]

Was this directed at me?..... if so because I don’t announce my livelihood/history so I get my boots tongue polished by anonymous people online doesn't automatically mean im bitching about “he can and I can’t” as you infer...more accurately it’s I can and think everyone should be able to as well.

To some the words in the oath/s taken actually mean something, to others it’s just words they mumble through to get to the next step. If you truely believe leosa/retired leo carry is paving the way to equal rights for all that’s seriously flawed thinking.
Have a great day!

No. I just re-stated my earlier post, as I stated.

I don't see that anything I wrote was accusatory.

It's more than time for pro-2A folks to stop ripping each other apart in public forums. It does no good, and a world of harm. I suspect there are whole armies of trolls out there working on promoting division in our ranks.

No, I'm not calling you a troll.

I'm trying to accentuate the positive aspects in situations in which others find butthurt.

If I was unclear, I apologise, but I think it was clearly expressed.

 

[Bob A]

"Being any type of LEO makes you more if a a target out in society"
That's a steep claim. You're stating as fact that off duty LEOs are crime victims at a higher rate than non-LEO citizens?
Or stating that LEOs FEEL that they're at a greater risk to become a crime victim than non-LEO citizens?

Is the data on this actually compiled somewhere?

I can recall a number of incidents in the Obama days when police were targeted and murdered for no reason other than being uniformed LEOs.

Not too many citizens are murdered for no reason; it does happen, of course, but they're not actively sought out as targets.

 

[East2West]

I can recall a number of incidents in the Obama days when police were targeted and murdered for no reason other than being uniformed LEOs.

Not too many citizens are murdered for no reason; it does happen, of course, but they're not actively sought out as targets.

Tracey Carrington, the Dawson Family, Guy Coffee, Kareem Guest, Moses Malone.

Just a few local names readily available via quick Google search for people murdered for being witnesses to crimes.

How many off duty LEOs have been murdered by people they've locked up?

How many retired LEOs have been murdered by people they locked up?

What's the off duty/retired LEO murder rate in the US vs the murder rate of civilians?

Statistics are not on the side of your argument. Off duty officers and especially retired officers are at no greater risk of being the victim of a violent crime than a civilian is. A PERCEIVED threat is no excuse for special treatment.

 

[ed bernay]

I can recall a number of incidents in the Obama days when police were targeted and murdered for no reason other than being uniformed LEOs.

Not too many citizens are murdered for no reason; it does happen, of course, but they're not actively sought out as targets.

I respectfully disagree. In 2017, there were 15,129 homicides. Of that number, 1,469 homicides were committed by strangers. If you look up the FBI statistics, and download the excel file, you can see the full picture as some of the columns on the FBI website are obstructed.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....17/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-10.xls

 

[East2West]

OK let me ask you this. Do you think these two convicts who approached me at the local gas station would of approached you? No, they recognized me from work and these guys aint' what you would call model citizens.
Look Me, and many others are working inside these institutions with thousands of convicts daily. Not to mentions city and county jails along with all the police that put them there.

We are bound to run into them once they hit the street also. I have been told more than once " I better never see you on the street" How many convicted murders, gang bangers, rapists etc.. have told you that?

I usually get the "you better not let him die" threat, not so much the let me see you on the outside threat

Your personal experiences do not extrapolate out to the total population and provide evidence to support your claim.

 

[ktm rider]

I usually get the "you better not let him die" threat, not so much the let me see you on the outside threat

Your personal experiences do not extrapolate out to the total population and provide evidence to support your claim.

How does it not ? Do you think these encounter are exclusive to only me? There are hundreds of thousands of LEO's of one capacity or another in this country. These types of encounters are happening daily across the country I'm sure.

As a matter of fact there was recently a policy change within the Bureau of Prisons allowing employees to carry their personal firearm to work while in uniform. Previously we were not allowed to carry our personal firearms to work and/or on Federal Property. The reason for this change in policy was, in fact, because of numerous situations that employees have encountered like the two I described earlier.
Believe it or not, convicts don't like LEO's all that much no matter what uniform they are wearing...

 

[East2West]

How does it not ? Do you think these encounter are exclusive to only me? There are hundreds of thousands of LEO's of one capacity or another in this country. These types of encounters are happening daily across the country I'm sure.

As a matter of fact there was recently a policy change within the Bureau of Prisons allowing employees to carry their personal firearm to work while in uniform. Previously we were not allowed to carry our personal firearms to work and/or on Federal Property. The reason for this change in policy was, in fact, because of numerous situations that employees have encountered like the two I described earlier.
Believe it or not, convicts don't like LEO's all that much no matter what uniform they are wearing...

And there is evidence to back up this claim of a greater threat to off duty LEOs than the average civilians? There's actual data showing they're a victim of a crime more often?

 

[frozencesium]

"I'm special because..." is a BS argument. It's the same argument the congress critters use to exempt themselves from all kinds of things to include insider trading laws and the ACA.

Why is 10 years (down from 15) so special? Wouldn't someone who made a single arrest face the same threat? Wouldn't simply having worn the uniform be the same threat? If you say "no", you're being elitist and furthering the "us vs them" mentality.

What about veterans? We've carried M16s, M9s, M4s, M60s, M240Bs, etc for years...generally 4 at least. By the same argument they should be able to legally posses and carry anything they want since they've had extensive training and plenty of experience using weapons in deadly scenarios. We've also been called out as targets by terrorist organizations, yet we don't get LEOSA status or special status when it comes to carrying.

LEOSA is a cruel joke to the rest of the populous. Just because you may benefit from LEOSA status doesn't mean the law is good, correct, or constitutional. If you think LEOSA is good, then you buy into the idea that you are, like the pigs in Animal Farm, "more equal than others".

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Realize too, this is an in an attempt to create separation. Divide and conquer. It works well. Here is a group of like minded folks, well, in basically one arena alone: guns.

The application of those guns, the building of them, their caliber, the color, the modifications, the shooting of, the holstering of, the cleaning of, the handling of.. well.. there starts your wars.

 

[SCV/SAR Patriot]

The second amendment is fairly simple to understand and should be equally applied to everyone. Given special privileges to one group over another is not what the Constitution is about. Someone earlier mentioned dividing people and this is exactly what it does when you create more laws. It's about time that these critters in congress start to repeal laws, not create new ones.

 

[East2West]

Realize too, this is an in an attempt to create separation. Divide and conquer. It works well. Here is a group of like minded folks, well, in basically one arena alone: guns.

The application of those guns, the building of them, their caliber, the color, the modifications, the shooting of, the holstering of, the cleaning of, the handling of.. well.. there starts your wars.

An attempt to separate.... That's a good point. I think the group receiving special treatment that the rest of the populous is denied, should stand in solidarity with those who are being treated as 2nd class citizens, and refuse that special treatment.

Don't let them separate us, we are a group who when operating as one has a lot of political power.

Reject special treatment and demand constitutional carry for everyone, refuse to carry off duty until everyone can concealed carry legally!!

 

[SCV/SAR Patriot]

QUOTE=East2West;5432609]An attempt to separate.... That's a good point. I think the group receiving special treatment that the rest of the populous is denied, should stand in solidarity with those who are being treated as 2nd class citizens, and refuse that special treatment.

Don't let them separate us, we are a group who when operating as one has a lot of political power.

Reject special treatment and demand constitutional carry for everyone, refuse to carry off duty until everyone can concealed carry legally!![/QUOTE]

 

[Bob A]

An attempt to separate.... That's a good point. I think the group receiving special treatment that the rest of the populous is denied, should stand in solidarity with those who are being treated as 2nd class citizens, and refuse that special treatment.

Don't let them separate us, we are a group who when operating as one has a lot of political power.

Reject special treatment and demand constitutional carry for everyone, refuse to carry off duty until everyone can concealed carry legally!!

Uh, no.

Until evil ceases to exist in the hearts an minds of mankind, I'd rather someone on my side was carrying the means of defense.

It would be far preferable for all those who are mentally capable to tool up until everyone can carry legally. Not that there's any likelihood of the end of evil. We seem to need adversaries to challenge us; it's evolutionary. Mankind would stagnate absent mortal challenge .

 

[TexDefender]

The only LEOSA based law that should be passed is its repeal. LEOSA is an affront to liberty and treats police, especially retired police, as a separate and privileged class. Police officers are private citizens and as such should be subject to the same laws they are charged against enforcing on others. If I can't carry, they shouldn't be allowed to. Amending the law to give them more privileges is offensive.

Matt

I disagree.

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[TexDefender]

Yes, active LEO's I understand & support, but why are retired LEO's treated different than law abiding folks? It just isn't right.

We lobbied for that privilege. Get the police unions on your side and all the other pro gun lobbies to do the same.

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[TexDefender]

Cops sure are charming, aren’t they, lol

Just as charming as most people.

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