Larry Vickers bans appendix carry

[pwoolford]

SERPA is definitely no-go too. Sucks because that is my favorite holster. I'm in his 2 day pistol/carbine class later this month and just got the class info by email:

"**Blackhawk SERPA holsters are not allowed in any of our classes, unless you are Military, Law Enforcement, or a Security Professional and it is issued to you.
We have seen safety issues with these holsters and always strive for the best possible safety & learning environment possible in our classes. Thank you very
much.**"


*Edit to say this may not be a Larry Vickers rule rather a rule of the sponsoring company Alias Training. Going to get confirmation today.

 

[Blaster229]

I'll beat the dead horse since someone else will inevitably chime on on Serpas.
It is only a safety issue in that the USER does not practice enough nor do they know exactly how the finger should work.
The trigger finger does not PUSH in, it merely GLIDES over the release when drawing, so that the finger stays straight forward out of the trigger guard until it is ready to press the trigger.

 

[clandestine]

SERPA is definitely no-go too. Sucks because that is my favorite holster. I'm in his 2 day pistol/carbine class later this month and just got the class info by email:

"**Blackhawk SERPA holsters are not allowed in any of our classes, unless you are Military, Law Enforcement, or a Security Professional and it is issued to you.
We have seen safety issues with these holsters and always strive for the best possible safety & learning environment possible in our classes. Thank you very
much.**"


*Edit to say this may not be a Larry Vickers rule rather a rule of the sponsoring company Alias Training. Going to get confirmation today.

I double dog dare you to wear this to the class.

 

[pwoolford]

I double dog dare you to wear this to the class.

Right to the double dog dare! Not sure I can find one in time. Wonder if he would like the SOTAR shirt?

[YT]ZLZj3zOUZNs[/YT]

 

[inkd]

SERPA is definitely no-go too. Sucks because that is my favorite holster. I'm in his 2 day pistol/carbine class later this month and just got the class info by email:

"**Blackhawk SERPA holsters are not allowed in any of our classes, unless you are Military, Law Enforcement, or a Security Professional and it is issued to you.
We have seen safety issues with these holsters and always strive for the best possible safety & learning environment possible in our classes. Thank you very
much.**"


*Edit to say this may not be a Larry Vickers rule rather a rule of the sponsoring company Alias Training. Going to get confirmation today.

Make sure you refer to yourself in the 3rd party.

 

[ProShooter]

SERPA is definitely no-go too. Sucks because that is my favorite holster. I'm in his 2 day pistol/carbine class later this month and just got the class info by email:

"**Blackhawk SERPA holsters are not allowed in any of our classes, unless you are Military, Law Enforcement, or a Security Professional and it is issued to you.
We have seen safety issues with these holsters and always strive for the best possible safety & learning environment possible in our classes. Thank you very
much.**"


*Edit to say this may not be a Larry Vickers rule rather a rule of the sponsoring company Alias Training. Going to get confirmation today.

We've banned them in our classes too....have for a while now.

I'll beat the dead horse since someone else will inevitably chime on on Serpas.
It is only a safety issue in that the USER does not practice enough nor do they know exactly how the finger should work.

That is the main issue, although there are others. Since you cannot test the level of experience someone has with it, it is just easier to not allow it.

The trigger finger does not PUSH in, it merely GLIDES over the release when drawing, so that the finger stays straight forward out of the trigger guard until it is ready to press the trigger.

A bent finger can also release the button, and then easily slip into the trigger guard.

 

[jimbobborg]

A bent finger can also release the button, and then easily slip into the trigger guard.

In the three years I've been using one, I've never had this happen. I use a slightly modded Serpa with my double-stack 1911 in 3-gun and USPSA, so it's not just holding it while punching paper. From what I've heard about this, almost all problems with the Serpa are with people using Beretta pistols.

 

[swinokur]

So if you use a bent finger while using a Serpa and you are not supposed to, how is this anything other than a training issue?

like keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

 

[Blaster229]

So if you use a bent finger while using a Serpa and you are not supposed to, how is this anything other than a training issue?

like keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

I will say this, if I am teaching a class other than a "How to draw from a SERPA" class, it becomes a safety issue if I don't know how much you have trained or your experience.

Most people with that trigger finger making that motion has only made that finger motion when they are going to press a trigger and not while practicing draws from a SERPA or any other button release retention holster.
It's 2 separate uses of the finger.

Newbies are nervous enough learning to just simply draw and shoot from the holster, no need to gum things up.

 

[swinokur]

i totally agree but after they learn trigger discipline can you then not teach them proper use of the Serpa? i see your point in not using it in a novice class though.

 

[pwoolford]

I forgot to post back that I got the OK to bring the Serpa but I'm also bringing a backup Safariland just in case. I'm probably going to switch to Safariland for good so this won't be a concern again. Just sucks because I really like my Serpa holsters and my M&P pro (5" barrel) won't fit in the Safariland I have. I ordered another for the Pro so it may arrive in time.

 

[Blaster229]

i totally agree but after they learn trigger discipline can you then not teach them proper use of the Serpa? i see your point in not using it in a novice class though.

Sure you can teach them. It's not so much "trigger discipline" as it is "SERPA finger" discipline.
It's two uses of a finger, the button release "slide" until out of the holster and then keeping the finger outside the trigger until ready to shoot.

Good trigger discipline is simply keeping our finger out of the trigger guard when we really aren't doing anything. But add in drawing out of a holster that requires some sort of dexterity from that finger while trying to be the fastest one out of the holster, then it gets sticky.

That's my take on it anyway and maybe over thinking it.

 

[jimbobborg]

When using the Serpa holster, use the flat part of the tip of your index finger to press the release button. As you draw your pistol out of the holster, your index finger will end up on the frame, over the trigger. If it ends up inside the trigger guard, you were already moving your finger to that position anyway.

 

[Blaster229]

When using the Serpa holster, use the flat part of the tip of your index finger to press the release button. As you draw your pistol out of the holster, your index finger will end up on the frame, over the trigger. If it ends up inside the trigger guard, you were already moving your finger to that position anyway.

People with a short finger cannot/have a hard time having it "slide" over it. If their tip does not, it inevitably pushes it in instead. Their is a "fit" criteria basically.

 

[jimbobborg]

People with a short finger cannot/have a hard time having it "slide" over it. If their tip does not, it inevitably pushes it in instead. Their is a "fit" criteria basically.

Do you use one of these holsters? I have big palms/short fingers, I have no problems working a Serpa without an AD.

 

[Blaster229]

Do you use one of these holsters? I have big palms/short fingers, I have no problems working a Serpa without an AD.

Congratulations. I shall brag that I have neither nor anyone I work with has.
I use one of those, I use a Fobus, I use all kind of holsters.

The point here is novice vs someone with some shooting experience. You are aware of this and someone new is not or has never been told. There is no instruction manual included in the package as to how to actually use the button. That I ever remember anyway.

 

[hogarth]

SERPA is definitely no-go too. Sucks because that is my favorite holster. I'm in his 2 day pistol/carbine class later this month and just got the class info by email:

"**Blackhawk SERPA holsters are not allowed in any of our classes, unless you are Military, Law Enforcement, or a Security Professional and it is issued to you.
We have seen safety issues with these holsters and always strive for the best possible safety & learning environment possible in our classes. Thank you very
much.**"


*Edit to say this may not be a Larry Vickers rule rather a rule of the sponsoring company Alias Training. Going to get confirmation today.

Not an Alias rule. I just trained with Mike Pannone again this weekend. They set their own rules for that.

 

[montoya32]

I'll beat the dead horse since someone else will inevitably chime on on Serpas.
It is only a safety issue in that the USER does not practice enough nor do they know exactly how the finger should work.
The trigger finger does not PUSH in, it merely GLIDES over the release when drawing, so that the finger stays straight forward out of the trigger guard until it is ready to press the trigger.

Finger should be straight with any holster being used. Poor discipline and lack of training can get you shot in the leg.

 

[ProShooter]

I will say this, if I am teaching a class other than a "How to draw from a SERPA" class, it becomes a safety issue if I don't know how much you have trained or your experience.

Most people with that trigger finger making that motion has only made that finger motion when they are going to press a trigger and not while practicing draws from a SERPA or any other button release retention holster.
It's 2 separate uses of the finger.

Newbies are nervous enough learning to just simply draw and shoot from the holster, no need to gum things up.

All very true.

 

[jimbobborg]

There is no instruction manual included in the package as to how to actually use the button. That I ever remember anyway.

Glad I kept the packaging. Mine included a small pamphlet on how to use the holster. RTFM.