Knives bad guys carry

[smokering]

That's one nice knife. I bet it cost an arm and a leg.

Naaaah, if you buy from the right source....just a couple of toes. Around $140....it's a baaaaaad mutah shut your mouth though.

 

[ToneGrail]

Not in MD. We suggest a Spyderco Endura & trainer plus some training.- George

Well seeing that I have the Endura (with the wave), I guess I already have your recommendation.

Do you suggest not using the wave feature at all then?

 

[Kchen986]

Maryland, updated July 2, 2004


§ 4-101. Dangerous weapons.

(a) Definitions.-
(1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated. (2) "Nunchaku" means a device constructed of two pieces of any substance, including wood, metal, or plastic, connected by any chain, rope, leather, or other flexible material not exceeding 24 inches in length.
(3) (i) "Pepper mace" means an aerosol propelled combination of highly disabling irritant pepper-based products.
(ii) "Pepper mace" is also known as oleoresin capsicum (o.c.) spray.
(4) "Star knife" means a device used as a throwing weapon, consisting of several sharp or pointed blades arrayed as radially disposed arms about a central disk.
(5) (i) "Weapon" includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku.
(ii) "Weapon" does not include:
1. a handgun; or
2. a penknife without a switchblade.

(b) Exceptions for certain individuals.- This section does not prohibit the following individuals from carrying a weapon:
(1) an officer of the State, or of any county or municipal corporation of the State, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the officer's official equipment, or by any conservator of the peace, who is entitled or required to carry the weapon as part of the conservator's official equipment, or by any officer or conservator of the peace of another state who is temporarily in this State;
(2) a special agent of a railroad;
(3) a holder of a permit to carry a handgun issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article; or
(4) an individual who carries the weapon as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger, subject to the right of the court in an action arising under this section to judge the reasonableness of the carrying of the weapon, and the proper occasion for carrying it, under the evidence in the case.

(c) Prohibited.-
(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person.
(2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner.
(3) (i) This paragraph applies in Anne Arundel County, Baltimore County, Caroline County, Cecil County, Harford County, Kent County, Montgomery County, Prince George's County, St. Mary's County, Talbot County, Washington County, and Worcester County.
(ii) A minor may not carry a dangerous weapon between 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise, whether concealed or not, except while:
1. on a bona fide hunting trip; or
2. engaged in or on the way to or returning from a bona fide trap shoot, sport shooting event, or any organized civic or military activity.

(d) Penalties.-
(1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both.
(2) For a person convicted under subsection (c)(1) or (2) of this section, if it appears from the evidence that the weapon was carried, concealed or openly, with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another, the court shall impose the highest sentence of imprisonment prescribed.

[An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 36; 2002, ch. 26, § 2; ch. 213, § 6; ch. 571, § 1; 2003, ch. 17; ch. 21, § 1.]


Maryland Case Law:
- "'Gravity knife' constituted a dangerous or deadly weapon."
(1964)
- "Pocketknife with the blade already open did not require
any time to open the knife, as one would with a penknife,
contained all the offensive qualities of a switchblade or
gravity knife because it was instantly available for
violent use, and was not a penknife within the statutory
exception." (1990)
- "On the face of the statute, there is no indication
contradicting the view that a penknife is a penknife
whether small or large, whether the blade is closed or
open, whether the blade is locked open or unlocked, and
whether it is carried concealed or openly." (1991)
- "A folding knife without switchblade but with a locking
device... falls within the exception for 'penknives
without switchblade" in this section." (1986)
- " A buck [sic] knife (a knife having a blade which folds
into the handle and which locks into place when open)
carried with the blade open was 'penknife without
switchblade' within statutory exception, and this status
was not altered by knife's blade-locking device or fact
that it was carried with its blade open." (1991)
- "Where defendant's conviction was on the basis that the
utility knife was a dangerous and deadly weapon per se,
but the Court did not consider defendant's intent, the
Court of Appeals reversed the conviction and remanded for
a new trial." (1992)
- "Location of the defendant, including whether he or she is
in a public place or on private property, is simply one
factor for the trier of fact to consider..." (1995)
- "For objects not legislatively classified as dangerous and
deadly per se, the State must prove that the object is
within the class described as any other dangerous or
deadly weapon of any kind." (1992)
- "Where the only evidence presented was that the object
appellant was carrying was a knife over three inches long,
this evidence was insufficient to meet the statutory
requirements of this section." (1992)



§ 4-102. Deadly weapons on school property.
(a) Exceptions.- This section does not apply to:
(1) a law enforcement officer in the regular course of the officer's duty;
(2) a person hired by a county board of education specifically for the purpose of guarding public school property;
(3) a person engaged in organized shooting activity for educational purposes; or
(4) a person who, with a written invitation from the school principal, displays or engages in a historical demonstration using a weapon or a replica of a weapon for educational purposes.
(b) Prohibited.- A person may not carry or possess a firearm, knife, or deadly weapon of any kind on public school property.
(c) Penalty.-
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, a person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both.
(2) A person who is convicted of carrying or possessing a handgun in violation of this section shall be sentenced under Subtitle 2 of this title.

[An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 36A; 2002, ch. 26, § 2; ch. 213, § 6.]




§ 4-105. Transfer of switchblade or shooting knife.
(a) Prohibited.- A person may not sell, barter, display, or offer to sell or barter:
(1) a knife or a penknife having a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, commonly called a switchblade knife or a switchblade penknife; or
(2) a device that is designed to propel a knife from a metal sheath by means of a high-compression ejector spring, commonly called a shooting knife.
(b) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 12 months or a fine of not less than $50 and not exceeding $500 or both.

[An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 339; 2002, ch. 26, § 2.]




http://www.knife-expert.com

Question: Is having a knife in your pocket, with the pocket clip visible considered "concealed carry" and thus illegal?

I have a spring assisted folder that I'd like to carry, but wouldn't want to run afoul of any Maryland laws.

 

[novus collectus]

Question: Is having a knife in your pocket, with the pocket clip visible considered "concealed carry" and thus illegal?

I have a spring assisted folder that I'd like to carry, but wouldn't want to run afoul of any Maryland laws.

Look at he statute, "weapon" does not include penknives and handguns, so wherever you see the word "weapon" it is excluding penknives and handguns. As a result of court determination that generally any folder not a switchblade is a penknife, there is nothing in that statute banning concealed carry of a folder.

(c) Prohibited.-
(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon [the word "weapon" does not include penknife without a switchblade] of any kind concealed on or about the person.

 

[Kchen986]

Thanks Novus. I figured as much but didn't want to get in to legal trouble. Much appreciated.

 

[Minuteman]

Thanks everyone for the discussion, especially mercop, Novus and Kchen986.
Because of another discussion, covering much of this led by Novus, I recently purchased the Rajah, love it. I'm now of the opinion (please correct if you disagree) the best legal carry is pepperspray and a large penknife, if you do not have CCW. A close runner up would be a super bright flashlight, especially if it has a large sharp bezel. These are all legal, anyone disagree? :-)

 

[ToneGrail]

A collapsible baton is good too. They sell smaller ones at gun shows. I carry a 16" in my back pocket.

 

[mercop]

Take it for what it is worth but even where legal the carrying of an expandable baton by a citizen screams of a "cop wannabe".

The MCS stance on strike bezels is that they take a legitimate tool that can be used as an impact weapon and turn it into an edged weapon. Most people would agree that an impact weapon would be lower use of force than and edged weapon. Because of this you may hesitate to use your light as an impact weapon because of the strike bezel.

Take two lights, one with the strike bezel and one without. Let your significant other hit you between the eyes or the the collarbone with each one while you are blindfolded. Let me know which one hurts worse

Get a regular light and some training, we discuss flashlights in our Combat Pen- Kubaton Course.

Back to the Wave, in Alabama last week we had some sad faces after I evidenced how a waved knife was impossible to open if you were on your back on the floor or up against a wall. Then we showed that because of diminished tactile sensation as a result of vasoconstriction the chances of dropping the knife using the pinch grip required for using the wave greatly increased the chances of dropping your knife.


- George

 

[3rdRcn]

Take two lights, one with the strike bezel and one without. Let you significant other hit you between the eyes or the the collarbone with each one while you are blindfolded. Let me know which one hurts worse
- George

 

[ToneGrail]

Why does carrying a compact collapsible baton make me a "cop wannabe"? Nobody knows I have it since it fits concealed in my back pocket. So I don't know why anyone would think I was some kind of mall ninja unless I was wearing it in a scabbard openly with handcuffs and a radio on a duty belt. I'm sure you could say the same thing about any civillian legally carrying a firearm.

I simply would prefer to use that instead of a knife because:

1) It has way more reach. I can use it before an attacker gets too close to me.

2) It's less lethal. I'm more likely to stun or bruise an attacker than kill him than if I stabbed him. I don't know about you, but I prefer to not have to deal with a homicide charge if I don't have to.

Of course, I would use my pepper spray if it wasn't windy, but as far as I'm concerned, a baton is a far superior weapon than a knife.

As far as the Endura Wave goes, you have some valid points. However, a knife to me is only a last resort weapon.

Take it for what it is worth but even where legal the carrying of an expandable baton by a citizen screams of a "cop wannabe".

The MCS stance on strike bezels is that they take a legitimate tool that can be used as an impact weapon and turn it into an edged weapon. Most people would agree that an impact weapon would be lower use of force than and edged weapon. Because of this you may hesitate to use your light as an impact weapon because of the strike bezel.

Take two lights, one with the strike bezel and one without. Let your significant other hit you between the eyes or the the collarbone with each one while you are blindfolded. Let me know which one hurts worse

Get a regular light and some training, we discuss flashlights in our Combat Pen- Kubaton Course.

Back to the Wave, in Alabama last week we had some sad faces after I evidenced how a waved knife was impossible to open if you were on your back on the floor or up against a wall. Then we showed that because of diminished tactile sensation as a result of vasoconstriction the chances of dropping the knife using the pinch grip required for using the wave greatly increased the chances of dropping your knife.


- George

 

[3rdRcn]

Why does carrying a compact collapsible baton make me a "cop wannabe"? I'm sure you could say the same thing about any civillian legally carrying a firearm.

I simply would prefer to use that instead of a knife because:

1) It has way more reach. I can use it before an attacker gets too close to me.

2) It's less lethal. I'm more likely to stun or bruise an attacker than kill him than if I stabbed him. I don't know about you, but I prefer to not have to deal with a homicide charge if I don't have to.

Of course, I would use my pepper spray if it wasn't windy, but as far as I'm concerned, a baton is a far superior weapon than a knife.

As far as the Endura Wave goes, you have some valid points. However, a knife to me is only a last resort weapon.

You could very easily end up dead with that philosophy on surviving a violent encounter..

 

[ToneGrail]

You could very easily end up dead with that philosophy on surviving a violent encounter..

It really depends on many variables. Of course, if the attacker has a gun, retreat or compliance is the only option in this state.

However if he is unarmed, I would attempt to retreat, but if cornered, step up the force continuum appropriately (pepper spray, then baton) and then attempt to retreat since I don't have the option of lethal force here in the PR or MD. Given that, a baton is way more effective than a knife. Unless you have some serious knife-fighting skills (which I don't have), a knife isn't really a good option.

 

[novus collectus]

Hate to tell you this, but if the baton is designed as a defensive weapon and/or you are carrying it as a defensive weapon, then it may be illegal if worn concealed in MD.

(c) (1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person.

 

[3rdRcn]

It really depends on many variables. Of course, if the attacker has a gun, retreat or compliance is the only option in this state.

However if he is unarmed, I would attempt to retreat, but if cornered, step up the force continuum appropriately (pepper spray, then baton) and then attempt to retreat since I don't have the option of lethal force here in the PR or MD. Given that, a baton is way more effective than a knife. Unless you have some serious knife-fighting skills (which I don't have), a knife isn't really a good option.

Long story short, if you ever pull a stick out on a guy with a knife you will in all likelyhood lose. Even the most inexperienced attacker knows he has to get close to use his knife, at that point your stick will be useless. I would rather have a knife in a knife fight than a stick in a knife fight, I don't care how much training you have with a stick, you will likely be the loser and at the very least will need a bunch of stitches.

 

[ToneGrail]

Long story short, if you ever pull a stick out on a guy with a knife you will in all likelyhood lose. Even the most inexperienced attacker knows he has to get close to use his knife, at that point your stick will be useless. I would rather have a knife in a knife fight than a stick in a knife fight, I don't care how much training you have with a stick, you will likely be the loser and at the very least will need a bunch of stitches.

I said that if he was unarmed.

Also, I would never let any suspicious character get that close to me without my situational awareness going on red alert first. Most likey, I would already be in a full speed retreat if if someone was coming at me.

 

[ToneGrail]

Hate to tell you this, but if the baton is designed as a defensive weapon and/or you are carrying it as a defensive weapon, then it may be illegal if worn concealed in MD.

I spoke with the lead prosecuter for Baltimore City and he said that as long as it's not intended for use in commission of a crime, I'm good to go.

 

[3rdRcn]

I said that if he was unarmed.

So you are counting on someone to assault you that is unarmed? As I said before, your philosophy of how an attacker will attack you and what you should be carrying to defend yourself will likely get you a free ride to being a statistic.

 

[fcruzcba@live.com]

I once had an experience with a guy in the parking lot of a strip mall late one evening that was insitant on me giving him a hand out and when i refused decided he was going to take it. After a 1-2 minute whup ass session i cuffed him( i always carry a set of SW handcuffs with me in the car) got him subdued called county when they searched him he had one of these "rambo" style knifes in his waist groing area. shocked me to know if I didn't have the paranoid attitude about knowing my surrounding that ****er would have gutted me in the parking lot so he could take the $6.23 i had in my pocket. This is one of the reasons i no longer carry cash just plastic.



"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
San Francisco, CA, May 13, 1903

Teddy Roosevelt

Don't hit at all if you can help it; don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep."
New York City, February 17, 1899

Teddy Roosevelt

 

[novus collectus]

I spoke with the lead prosecuter for Baltimore City and he said that as long as it's not intended for use in commission of a crime, I'm good to go.

I am not a lawyer, but he is wrong. You might be good to go in the city while he is in office, but other prosecutors might not let you get away with this.

In order to violate § 36(a) by the
concealed wearing or carrying of an instrument
which has not legislatively been declared to
be a dangerous or deadly weapon per se, the
trier of fact must first determine whether the
instrument constitutes a “dangerous or deadly
weapon.” The concealed carrying prohibition
of § 36(a) is not violated simply because the
instrument can be used to inflict serious or
deadly harm. The person carrying the object
must have at least the general intent to carry
the instrument for its use as a weapon, either
of offense or defense. It is a question of
fact, to be decided based on all of the
circumstances.

Anderson v. State,

 

[fcruzcba@live.com]

i dont even bother with a knife

It really depends on many variables. Of course, if the attacker has a gun, retreat or compliance is the only option in this state.

However if he is unarmed, I would attempt to retreat, but if cornered, step up the force continuum appropriately (pepper spray, then baton) and then attempt to retreat since I don't have the option of lethal force here in the PR or MD. Given that, a baton is way more effective than a knife. Unless you have some serious knife-fighting skills (which I don't have), a knife isn't really a good option.

I don't even bother with carrying a knife because like you say i just don't have the skill set to use one effectively. So i fugre it would do me more harm than good