Knives bad guys carry

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  • mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    Much of edged weapon training is done with big plastic/rubber knives. I decided to take the confiscated knives I had laying around that I use for classes and analyze them. There were 11 knives, and everyone of them was taken from someone who was arrested. They likely were not charged with them unless they were used in the crime or were prohibited. Most of the time they decided to turn them over because they would not accept them as property in the jail. Although I cannot recall I am pretty sure that they all had previous criminal records. Most bad guys give the excuse of self defense for the reason they carry edged weapons.
    knives014.jpg


    Out of 11 knives, six were fixed blades, 3 were kitchen type knives, 3 were folders (one was a folding razor type and one cheap balisong), and three were box cutter/razor knives.

    In the state of Maryland where they were seized only the folder on the bottom right hand side is legal to carry.

    The average blade length was 2.82 inches.

    Further analysis shows that five of them would stab/cut, four would slash only and two would stab only.

    The reality is that none of these offenders were charged with the carrying of these concealed weapons. For the folks carrying them it was the least of their problems.

    Although I am sure that there individuals who carry machetes and bowie knives I have to believe these examples are indicative of knives the policeman or citizen will likely face on the street.

    Since I don't, nor am I aware of any training programs that specifically focus on these types of weapons I think it is a good idea to think about these types of weapons when you think about having to defend against one. Not bowie knives or machetes.

    Two points that stand out to me in reference to edged weapon attacks are that the majority of the time the victim never sees the knife and instead thinks they are being punched and that the last few cuts or stabs are the fatal ones.

    Armed with this information and seeing how small the average size is of and edged weapon we will likely see on the street you can see why people seldom see them.

    Again we are taken back to the fundamental rule of defending against the mechanism of the attack and not the tool.

    Try not to get cut.

    If you must take a cut, minimize it.

    Control the weapon arm.

    Smash the head and elbow until it is over.
     

    Got_Glock

    Old School
    Jan 16, 2010
    160
    Charles County
    It's bad enough this state won't let me defend myself with a gun but I'll be damed if I won't carry the knife of my choice.
    I'll take the knife charge if need be. :mad54:

    I agree with you, the only way to be legal in MD is to be a victim! And let the police take pictures of your dead body, you will be in compliance with the law then. :mad54:
     

    mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    I can't carry my folding box cutter I use at work??? who knew

    You are OK, it is a tool of your trade. They would not be my first choice for self-defense. I would look into the Spyderco Endura/Delica since they also have trainer/drone available. Without the trainer there is no way to build confidence in your training.

    Until the King allows CCW in MD it would be in everyone's best interested to learn how to effectively use a folder.

    The main reason for the post was to show what you will likely face and the characteristics of use. You will likely not see the weapon because lighting conditions, size, movement, and being covered with blood.- George
     

    BeltBuckle

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 14, 2008
    2,587
    MoCo, MD
    so, under the tools of the trade, any of the knives you pictured could be legal under any circumstances where possession/carrying is associated with use as a tool? Eg, all the kitchen or utility knives would be OK on camping trips or to/from; any of the other knives/box cutters would be ok in a tool kit. would that be correct?
     

    mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    You got it. Enforcement depends on where you live. Example- I worked in an area of RT 40 that was full of warehouses. What do warehouse workers carry...razors knives and box cutters. They are also heavily comprised of criminals. I would stop someone at 0200 on hanging outside of a bar with a box cutter in his pocket and he would try to say that it was for work but did not even work that day. Get it? Just another tool. Expect for kids in school I never saw anyone charged with possession of any edged weapon that was unrelated to another crime.

    Walking around with a screw driver in your back pocket...no big deal. Get caught with it in the parking lot of a car dealership and night and you are a Rouge and Vagabond in possession of burglary tools.- George
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Did you ever see anyone get charged with the open carrying of a knife of any kind and not get charged for anything else? If so, what year?
    Oh, and aren't ballisongs gray areas because technically they are knives who's blade folds into the handle?
     

    mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    Never saw anyone get charged with just the knife. Where I worked we had bigger issues. The balisong is a gray area. I saw a lot of cheap ones confiscated from kids. I even carried a BM 47 in midnights for a while behind my mag pouches. I love balis. Even my dog is named Bali.- George
     

    ToneGrail

    MSI, NRA, & SAF Member
    Dec 18, 2008
    1,397
    Towson, People's Republik of MD
    You are OK, it is a tool of your trade. They would not be my first choice for self-defense. I would look into the Spyderco Endura/Delica since they also have trainer/drone available. Without the trainer there is no way to build confidence in your training.

    Until the King allows CCW in MD it would be in everyone's best interested to learn how to effectively use a folder.

    The main reason for the post was to show what you will likely face and the characteristics of use. You will likely not see the weapon because lighting conditions, size, movement, and being covered with blood.- George

    +1 on the Spyderco. I just got a Waved Endura 4 and I absolutely love it. Up until then, my EDC knife was a Kershaw Whirlwind, but this thing just blows it away when it comes to deployment speed.

    For those of you not familiar with the Endura Wave, it's like carrying a fixed blade because it opens as you draw it out of your pocket. It's also 100% legal since it qualifies as a manual folder because there is no spring mechanism anywhere in the knife.
     

    Eviljagtech

    Infected w/ Freedom
    Jan 24, 2010
    505
    Harpers Ferry, WV
    I cheat slightly, thanks to being an auto tech I've got a 24" long Phillips head screw driver in my car(along with other cheap tools for side jobs) and keep a 8" Phillips in my pocket. I have a knife to, but its only 3.5" long.

    Funny I just noticed the screwdriver in the pic, but when I talked to a Monkey County cop about it he never mentioned it being a "weapon"? Something fishy here.
     
    Last edited:

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    I cheat slightly, thanks to being an auto tech I've got a 24" long Phillips head screw driver in my car(along with other cheap tools for side jobs) and keep a 8" Phillips in my pocket. I have a knife to, but its only 3.5" long.

    Funny I just noticed the screwdriver in the pic, but when I talked to a Monkey County cop about it he never mentioned it being a "weapon"? Something fishy here.

    Anything (except handguns and penknives) worn concealed can be considered a deadly weapon under the right circumstances under 4-101. Even a microphone cord could be a dangerous weapon under MD law. However if it is not one of the listed weapons (Bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, etc.) then it is up to the state to prove it is either designed as a weapon or intended to be used as a weapon as I understand it.
     

    Eviljagtech

    Infected w/ Freedom
    Jan 24, 2010
    505
    Harpers Ferry, WV
    I swear, the more I hear,read and understand Maryland law. The bigger my headache gets bigger and bigger. Maybe I shouldn't have found this site I'm learning to much(not).

    On to the post, when I was in karate as a kid many moons ago, they taute quite a bit about defending against these weapons. If I Remember right it was when the attacked, focus on the attacker. When the attack happens, grab the arm while stepping one step back and out of the way. Give a swift downward kick to the most available knee. Make sure of your soundings and flee for help.

    Not sure if this will help anyone, but it is a sound plan. BTW don't kick them when there down, they can put you in jail for excessive force. So make sure their stand while you beat them upon the head.
     

    ezeerider

    Mount Airy, Marylandistan
    Feb 10, 2009
    887
    Mount Airy, Md.
    Back in the late 70's I used to wear a 13" Bowie knife on me during working hours. I did landscaping back then and used the knife to cut bales of straw, cut burlap bags, cut the roots of trees we planted, used it as a pry bar, a hammer, a screwdriver and all kinda other uses. I never thought anything about it back then until I was stopped by some cops while cutting through a shopping center parking lot after buying my lunch. They didn't take the knife, but made me stand there while they ran my name looking for outstanding warrants, I guess. Since I was wearing it in a sheath, unconcealed, and I used it for work, there was nothing they could do but let me go. Am I to assume that the laws are still the same, and if this were to happen today, I would get the same result? I love my Bowie knife but don't wear it much these days. Would just like to know if I could.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Back in the late 70's I used to wear a 13" Bowie knife on me during working hours. I did landscaping back then and used the knife to cut bales of straw, cut burlap bags, cut the roots of trees we planted, used it as a pry bar, a hammer, a screwdriver and all kinda other uses. I never thought anything about it back then until I was stopped by some cops while cutting through a shopping center parking lot after buying my lunch. They didn't take the knife, but made me stand there while they ran my name looking for outstanding warrants, I guess. Since I was wearing it in a sheath, unconcealed, and I used it for work, there was nothing they could do but let me go. Am I to assume that the laws are still the same, and if this were to happen today, I would get the same result? I love my Bowie knife but don't wear it much these days. Would just like to know if I could.

    The statute and the court precedence has not changed much, so as I see it, it is legal to open carry a large Bowie knife.
    If a police officer stops you and makes you stay there I think I read somewhere that is detaining you which I think can be considered arrest and if you are doing nothing wrong and the open carry of the knife is legal I don't think they can do this, however I am sketchy on the arrest/detention thing.
     

    mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    +1 on the Spyderco. I just got a Waved Endura 4 and I absolutely love it. Up until then, my EDC knife was a Kershaw Whirlwind, but this thing just blows it away when it comes to deployment speed.

    For those of you not familiar with the Endura Wave, it's like carrying a fixed blade because it opens as you draw it out of your pocket. It's also 100% legal since it qualifies as a manual folder because there is no spring mechanism anywhere in the knife.

    The Wave has failed horribly in our Folder into the Fight Drill. You only get a "pinch" grip on the draw and as you readjust it ends up getting dropped a lot. Try it with a trainer. I am good friends with Ernie Emerson and he knows how I feel about the Wave for defensive reason. Now the Emerson Karmabit worn on the reaction side in the reverse grip is a different thing all together.- George
     

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