HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

[buellsfurn]

done

 

[Schipperke]

George Orwell really nailed it.

 

[esqappellate]

George Orwell really nailed it.

Franz Kafka even better. Right out of "The Trial"

 

[buellsfurn]

George Orwell really nailed it.

this one, People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

 

[esqappellate]

this one, People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

AKA, the U.S. Marine Corps! I am a proud father of a 1st Lt. Marine Field Artillery Officer.

 

[Rack&Roll]

And to make it easy....just cut and paste the account below into an email so your recipient does not even have to go clicking to find it!

Send the story below to every MD legislator and to Governor Hogan, and post the link on their pages!


FIRST USE OF FLORIDA'S NEW RED FLAG LAW CREATES THE NIGHTMARE MANY HAVE WARNED US ABOUT!

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ki...-student-accused-of-planning-school-shooting/

A smack-talking University of Central Florida student's life has been ruined after police phony up a petition to put the student into a mental ward for evaluation and confiscate a pistol locked in the safe of the student's father--all in the midst of a heavy handed and, apparently, unlawful targeting of the family.

It was the first use of the Risk Protection Order (RPO) signed into law by Florida Governor Rick Scott, and came after the law had been in effect for only 7 days .

In a story published just today (Saturday) by The Free Thought Project (along with parallel reporting in the Orlando Sentinel), 21-year old UCF student Chris Velazquez was effectively kidnapped by police and put into a locked psych ward for a weekend based on alleged false declarations by Orlando authorities, who appeared in a rush to proclaim they had intervened to stop what they said was a mass shooter prepping to attack.

All this, based on anonymous posts to the REDDIT online chat site where Velazquez is said to have commented on mass shooters in a fashion that his family describes as in keeping with many of the snarky and edgy Black Humor posts that are a signature feature of the REDDIT site.

For posting three comments online, Velasquez had his freedom temporarily taken away, was forced to undergo a psychiatric evaluation, and was later told not to return to UCF, an action known as being “trespassed.” He is still a student at the university but now is the focus of a campus-based investigation to determine whether he will be allowed back on campus. UCF is determining if Velasquez broke the university’s code of conduct—simply for exercising his rights to free speech in a public forum, and using a fake name.

The Orlando Sentinel obtained the original petition for an RPO against Velasquez. Orlando Police Sgt. Matthew Ochiuzzo wrote in the petition, “Due to the respondent’s admissions of detailed homicidal ideation, your petitioner is gravely concerned that a real or perceived life event could unpredictably cause your respondent to obtain a firearm and commit a mass shooting.”

The temporary RPO was granted but a subsequent review by the same judge who signed it found there was no probable cause to allow for a permanent RPO that would last for one year.

The family has since hired a lawyer who claims UCF police coerced comments out of Velasquez. According to a report from the Orlando Sentinel, Kendra Parris, attorney for the Velasquez family, described Velasquez’ treatment by police as “shameful.”

“Officer [Jeffrey] Panter took a handful of online comments—none of which was an actual threat—from a forum in which people are known to troll and act like ‘edgelords,’” she said. Parris also used the term “coercive” to describe how police arrived at the conclusion her client had “homicidal ideations.”

Predictably, police praised their actions as having been able to further protect the community. UCF Police Department spokeswoman Courtney Gilmartin issued a statement in which she said, “We should all sleep easier at night knowing that a firearm was removed from his household and that he is barred from purchasing any others.” That statement is only partially true. Velasquez did not own a weapon and the only gun taken belonged to his father, leaving the rest of the Velasquez family entirely defenseless and unable to protect themselves against home intruders or criminals who may target them.

“There is a long list of jurisprudence which constitutes a threat,” Parris told The Free Thought Project in an exclusive interview. After being forced to spend the weekend in a mental health facility, doctors also concluded Velasquez posed “no threat to anyone.” Parris said her client was engaged in “constitutionally protected free speech.”

“There’s another thing that is absolutely bonkers about this, anybody can buy a gun in a private sale in this state. This law is not stopping anybody from purchasing a firearm. What it did do was trample on my client’s constitutional rights,” Parris said, noting that her client was simply a victim of the “thought police.”

 

[rockstarr]

Wow rack- that’s scary to read man.

 

[clandestine]

“Officer [Jeffrey] Panter took a handful of online comments—none of which was an actual threat—from a forum in which people are known to troll and act like ‘edgelords,’” she said. Parris also used the term “coercive” to describe how police arrived at the conclusion her client had “homicidal ideations.”

Coming to MDS if this Law passes. I bet those who have been in trouble or banned will try to get revenge to anyone they don't like. Mods and Members.

Heck even Rack has some haters who would like to see him steamrolled.

 

[Jim12]

Send the story below to every MD legislator and to Governor Hogan, and post the link on their pages!


FIRST USE OF FLORIDA'S NEW RED FLAG LAW CREATES THE NIGHTMARE MANY HAVE WARNED US ABOUT!


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ki...-student-accused-of-planning-school-shooting/

A smack-talking University of Central Florida student's life has been ruined after police phony up a petition to put the student into a mental ward for evaluation and confiscate a pistol locked in the safe of the student's father--all in the midst of a heavy handed and, apparently, unlawful targeting of the family.

It was the first use of the Risk Protection Order (RPO) signed into law by Florida Governor Rick Scott, and came after the law had been in effect for only 7 days.

In a story published just today (Saturday) by The Free Thought Project (and with parallel reporting in the Orlando Sentinel) 21-year old UCF student Chris Velazquez was kidnapped by police and put into a locked psych ward for a weekend based on alleged false declarations by police, who appeared in a rush to proclaim they had intervened to stop what they said was a mass shooter prepping to attack.

All this, based on anonymous posts to the REDDIT online chat site where Velazquez is said to have commented on mass shooters in a fashion that his family describes as in keeping with many of the snarky and edgy Black Humor posts that are a signature feature of the REDDIT site.

For posting three comments online, Velasquez had his freedom temporarily taken away, was forced to undergo a psychiatric evaluation, and was later told not to return to UCF, an action known as being “trespassed.” He is still a student at the university but now is the focus of a campus-based investigation to determine whether he will be allowed back on campus. UCF is determining if Velasquez broke the university’s code of conduct—simply for exercising his rights to free speech in a public forum and using a fake name.

The Orlando Sentinel obtained the original petition for an RPO against Velasquez. Orlando Police Sgt. Matthew Ochiuzzo wrote in the petition, “Due to the respondent’s admissions of detailed homicidal ideation, your petitioner is gravely concerned that a real or perceived life event could unpredictably cause your respondent to obtain a firearm and commit a mass shooting.”

The temporary RPO was granted but a subsequent review by the same judge who signed it found there was no probable cause to allow for a permanent RPO that would last for one year.

The family has since hired a lawyer who claims UCF police coerced comments out of Velasquez. According to a report from the Orlando Sentinel, Kendra Parris, attorney for the Velasquez family, described Velasquez’ treatment by police as “shameful.”

“Officer [Jeffrey] Panter took a handful of online comments—none of which was an actual threat—from a forum in which people are known to troll and act like ‘edgelords,’” she said. Parris also used the term “coercive” to describe how police arrived at the conclusion her client had “homicidal ideations.”

Predictably, police praised their actions as having been able to further protect the community. UCF Police Department spokeswoman Courtney Gilmartin issued a statement in which she said, “We should all sleep easier at night knowing that a firearm was removed from his household and that he is barred from purchasing any others.” That statement is only partially true. Velasquez did not own a weapon and the only gun taken belonged to his father, leaving the rest of the Velasquez family entirely defenseless and unable to protect themselves against home intruders or criminals who may target them.

“There is a long list of jurisprudence which constitutes a threat,” Parris told The Free Thought Project in an exclusive interview. After being forced to spend the weekend in a mental health facility, doctors also concluded Velasquez posed “no threat to anyone.” Parris said her client was engaged in “constitutionally protected free speech.”

“There’s another thing that is absolutely bonkers about this, anybody can buy a gun in a private sale in this state. This law is not stopping anybody from purchasing a firearm. What it did do was trample on my client’s constitutional rights,” Parris said, noting that her client was simply a victim of the “thought police.”

I had to look up "homicidal ideation."

The Crisis Intervention Center says most people experience it at some time in their lives, and usually present no threat to society or themselves.

"Studies have found that most people experience thoughts of homicide at some point in their life, experiences called, “homicide fantasies”. These usually are vague and without intent and present no threat to society or the individual. Whenever homicide ideation becomes dangerous is when it is paired with intent and planning, or occurs in moments where an individual ‘loses control’." https://cicla.org/homicidal-ideation/

These laws arm the ignorant, the vengeful, and the idiotic with the ability and tools to ruin innocent people's lives without due process or any accountability.

 

[cantstop]

There will without a doubt be folks that will have their guns stolen by the MD Police by this bill. Pre 2013 AR's and Magazines greater than 10 rounds will be virtually impossible to recover. Handguns taken from those that refuse to get an HQL. On top of that, if a gun is misplaced or forgotten, like an old Mosin in a box in the basement that has its firing bolt in the safe, this law will turn the owner into a criminal for not surrendering it. Even though no crime has taken place.

This bill is not just unconstitutional, it is morally corrupt.

 

[Bob A]

This bill is not just unconstitutional, it is morally corrupt.

Forget it, Jake. It's C̶h̶i̶n̶a̶t̶o̶w̶n̶ Maryland.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

rules

Those who wish to delve further into the procedural aspects of conference committees, and vetoes, may wish to review the pertinent pages from the Maryland Legislator's Handbook 2014, which I have uploaded as the attached file.

The complete Maryland Legislator's Handbook 2014 exceeds this forum's file size limitation (it's 34mb), but it may be downloaded via this link.

 

[ironpony]

With the House not concurring with the Senate amendments does that mean "Any Interested Person" is back? Square one?

 

[NoMoreTreadingOnUs]

With the House not concurring with the Senate amendments does that mean "Any Interested Person" is back? Square one?

I think it means the conference committee will reconcile the two versions which will probably result in a third version, the contents of which is anyone’s guess.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

yes, but . . .

With the House not concurring with the Senate amendments does that mean "Any Interested Person" is back? Square one?

In practice, a conference committee can do anything it wants with the bill language, as long as it stays within the general topic area. They can make it better, they can make it worse. They can insert language that appears in neither the House-passed nor the Senate-passed versions. All they need is the signatures of four of the six conferees -- which is to say, if there is agreement among all four Democrats (two senators, two House members), they don't need acceptance from either Republican (one senator, one House member).

So in theory, yes, four conferees could agree on a final bill that would include "any other interested person." But that won't happen -- it has been clear at least since the Senate hearing on March 23 that the advocacy groups pushing the bill are not interested in defending that clause. As one of them testified, even without the phrase, any person can still go to local law enforcement and request that a petition be filed by the law enforcement agency. In some of the state's urban areas, it seems likely that such requests will be acted on without independent investigation by the law enforcement agency, which will simply fill out the form and file it with a district court commissioner (a sort of clerk), or a judge, who will act on it without having any other information whatever about the gun owner or his history with respect to the petitioner or complainant.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

If our team of MDS lawyers haven't gotten that Florida ERPO case in front of the MGA and Governor Hogan, and discussed in detail, they should. At the very least, all of us should copy it and send it as an e-mail.

It's a prime example of why this bill should be shyt canned or vetoed if it hits Hogan's desk.

Though I'm afraid it would be viewed as: Sucks to be him, but.....If we can destroy just one gun collection, cough cough, save just one child 1302 will be worth it.

 

[Schipperke]

In practice, a conference committee can do anything it wants with the bill language, as long as it stays within the general topic area. They can make it better, they can make it worse. They can insert language that appears in neither the House-passed nor the Senate-passed versions. All they need is the signatures of four of the six conferees -- which is to say, if there is agreement among all four Democrats (two senators, two House members), they don't need acceptance from either Republican (one senator, one House member).

So in theory, yes, four conferees could agree on a final bill that would include "any other interested person." But that won't happen -- it has been clear at least since the Senate hearing on March 23 that the advocacy groups pushing the bill are not interested in defending that clause. As one of them testified, even without the phrase, any person can still go to local law enforcement and request that a petition be filed by the law enforcement agency. In some of the state's urban areas, it seems likely that such requests will be acted on without independent investigation by the law enforcement agency, which will simply fill out the form and file it with a district court commissioner (a sort of clerk), or a judge, who will act on it without having any other information whatever about the gun owner or his history with respect to the petitioner or complainant.

Yep, and the weight of scrutiny is diminished too. I'm not in agreement the Bill gives "Full Immunity" to the person bringing the action. "In good faith" does have meaning and is written in as a caveat. I've seen a friend prevail as a defendant asserting bad faith of the complainant, and he was rewarded handsomely. The appellant was in shock what they had done to them self. If someone uses this Red Flag provision callously, they'll get whacked. I'd rather file a claim against a person who brought the petition in bad faith without a law enforcement agency inserting itself as an intermediary.

The example cited in FL wouldn't meet bad faith. If you send that article to any proponent of the Bill, they'll read the story as the law working as it should and use it in support. The gun was taken, then returned, proponents will wear that as a medal. Better to err on the side of caution. The Judge ruled and the system worked. They are really not concerned with liberty or what effect the action had on the family who they confiscated the firearm(s) from. "Take the guns first, due process later", straight from the top.

It's time to measure yourself on social media, that is for sure. What is really going to suck is identity theft on social media to spur an action by others against someone.

 

[DC-W]

The latest from MSI
https://mailchi.mp/marylandshallissue/hb1302-red-flag-red-alert?e=1fa507aab5

 

[Rack&Roll]

Schipperke: are you so bloodless as to wish the Velasquez Family nightmare on thousands and thousands of Marylanders just so you can posture as the Smartest Girl In The Room with your “Friend of The Govt/Democrat” briefs here just 24 hours from a possible vote?

The Florida case is instructive and a warning that weighs in against the unadulterated attack on MD firearms owners by hate-blinded zealots who are trying to ram something down our throats and you want to argue “the other side” here??

I know passive/aggressive “help” when I see it and so does every man who has ever been married.

How about going fishing and come back Tuesday so we don’t have to deal with “yeah, but on the other hand” Quisling BS when our effort is to blunt the gun hater trap they are trying to set—a trap that could make YOUR life a living hell, too

Or do you want to just posture up here as a Smart Girl with posts that presuppose we are too dense to run this operation in the trenches while you wave dismissively from your comfy computer nook?

 

[j_h_smith]

You know what? Even with the changes, this Bill is going to be an eye opener for those Fudds who have always said that they'll never come after my hunting rifles and shotguns. Lets see how they feel when they've got to defend their saneness in front of a judge. Imagine their faces when the police come for their firearms. It's going to be an eye opener for some of them. Imagine the talk at the hunting cabin when good old Bob won't be hunting because of some new law on the books.

Personally I believe the Fudds in Maryland have a better chance of being caught up in this crazy stupid law more than the collector or more high end firearm user.

I know it's late in the fight, but has anyone reached out to their hunting buddies and talked to them about this Bill?