HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

[Hawkeye]

And now it’s about punishing those who voted for it

Fine, but can you take that to another thread, please?

This one was initially very useful for actually tracking what was going on with the bill, and now there are page after page of "omg I hate these faketraitorassholejerkfacenotrealrepublicans" type ranting that is, frankly, useless.

And it hurts our cause.

I have spent hours on the phone with elected officials this week, talking with them and educating them about the issues surrounding both this and the bump stock bill. You'd be surprised what you can get done when you approach them like people instead of ranting.

In fact, you know what got said a bunch of times? "I am sick of being called a traitor and being yelled at. I wish more people would just talk to me, because then I'd be more wiling to listen." Guys, a certain amount of anger about stuff like this is fine and useful. Acting on that is fine and useful. But when you go off the hook and cuss people out, it hurts our cause.

The facts of the matter are that these (mainly Republicans, I'm speaking of) folks are elected office holders in a state that is mainly hostile to them. They also have moire constituents to serve than just you and I and other gun people. One guy I spoke to this week said "hey, if I'd known there were more people like you out there I might have voted differently" because he had gotten a sum total of two phone calls about it from our side, and a flood from the other side.

But if we work with them and act like normal, mature, responsible people who can speak sensibly about the issues instead of frothing at the mouth and hurling insults, we can get a lot more done.

I actually had one of the members of the house ask me to please write up some proposed amendments to fix this POS Red Flag bill and send them to him so he can propose them if it gets bounced back. See how that works?

 

[buellsfurn]

Fine, but can you take that to another thread, please?

This one was initially very useful for actually tracking what was going on with the bill, and now there are page after page of "omg I hate these faketraitorassholejerkfacenotrealrepublicans" type ranting that is, frankly, useless.

And it hurts our cause.

I have spent hours on the phone with elected officials this week, talking with them and educating them about the issues surrounding both this and the bump stock bill. You'd be surprised what you can get done when you approach them like people instead of ranting.

In fact, you know what got said a bunch of times? "I am sick of being called a traitor and being yelled at. I wish more people would just talk to me, because then I'd be more wiling to listen." Guys, a certain amount of anger about stuff like this is fine and useful. Acting on that is fine and useful. But when you go off the hook and cuss people out, it hurts our cause.

The facts of the matter are that these (mainly Republicans, I'm speaking of) folks are elected office holders in a state that is mainly hostile to them. They also have moire constituents to serve than just you and I and other gun people. One guy I spoke to this week said "hey, if I'd known there were more people like you out there I might have voted differently" because he had gotten a sum total of two phone calls about it from our side, and a flood from the other side.

But if we work with them and act like normal, mature, responsible people who can speak sensibly about the issues instead of frothing at the mouth and hurling insults, we can get a lot more done..
I actually had one of the members of the house ask me to please write up some proposed amendments to fix this POS Red Flag bill and send them to him so he can propose them if it gets bounced back. See how that works?

Com on man where was that 1 guy during testimony readings. and if your getting call's from pissed off people would you think that was because they where happy . yes you get more bee's with honey but were not talking about telling the children no ice cream tonight HB1302 could effect someones life

 

[Bisleyfan44]

Single issue voting works for me. If a candidate has the correct position on the 2A (and votes accordingly), then I know they understand the all-important relationship between the govt servant and the tax-paying employer of said public servant. They know their place and who the boss is.

There is no way in hell I'm voting for any politician at any level of govt who votes against the citizen's ability to keep govt tyranny in check........NO MATTER THE SHORT TERM CONSEQUENCE! A turncoat does not deserve my support and will not receive it. We lose GA seats? The Governor's mansion? Oh well, IMO they are lost already. Same with the US House and Senate. And Presidency for that matter.

I've said it before, primaries have consequences and we have to make better choices at that level, because once we get to the general, the choice is gone. Then it's the "lesser of two evils" kind of thing. Instead of Hogan, it could have been Lollar or even Craig. Instead of Trump, we could have had Cruz, Paul, or even Rubio. Either of the latters would have been far better than the formers. Picking the "centrist" or the "populist" because we are told they are the "only one who can beat the Dem" is a losing strategy. I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils again; I'll vote for the solid candidate or nobody. YMMV

 

[danb]

Speaking of actual legislation.

I dont see an update for 1302. Feels like amendments are coming.


The amended senate HPRB bill passed 3rd reader. 46-1

 

[dblas]

Agreed, but once something like this passes how do you recover. Vote against your own party? I do not see how that would make anything any better.

If they have primary competition, vote for the competition.

 

[dblas]

Ok you guys tell me the solution. Voting for the other guy doesn’t seem like a viable solution

If the other guy is in the primary it is.

 

[Bisleyfan44]

I have spent hours on the phone with elected officials this week, talking with them and educating them about the issues surrounding both this and the bump stock bill. You'd be surprised what you can get done when you approach them like people instead of ranting.

Well, that's great. Mind sharing how you got up with them? I've not gotten through to any of my people by phone. And NO response to multiple emails and FB posts. None. And I have been civil in all. So if you have a super secret phone number, code word, or something, pass it along

In fact, you know what got said a bunch of times? "I am sick of being called a traitor and being yelled at. I wish more people would just talk to me, because then I'd be more wiling to listen." Guys, a certain amount of anger about stuff like this is fine and useful. Acting on that is fine and useful. But when you go off the hook and cuss people out, it hurts our cause.

Agreed. Civility, not profanity and threats are the order of the day. But when you vote against a major part of your constituency(and one historically known to be very active and vocal), don't be surprised when you trigger emotions.

The facts of the matter are that these (mainly Republicans, I'm speaking of) folks are elected office holders in a state that is mainly hostile to them. They also have more constituents to serve than just you and I and other gun people. One guy I spoke to this week said "hey, if I'd known there were more people like you out there I might have voted differently" because he had gotten a sum total of two phone calls about it from our side, and a flood from the other side.

This isn't a gun issue. It's a Constitution issue. You know, due process and all. Regardless of how many people they've heard from on one side or the other, you have to uphold and not violate the Constitution. Maybe I'm expecting too much that politicians honor the document they swore to uphold.

.

 

[zoostation]

Remember when this thread was about a piece of legislation?

Agreed. Let's get back on point on what to do about this bill and leave out the discussion of I do/don't like this politician and umpteen other things.

 

[Hawkeye]

Well, that's great. Mind sharing how you got up with them? I've not gotten through to any of my people by phone. And NO response to multiple emails and FB posts. None. And I have been civil in all. So if you have a super secret phone number, code word, or something, pass it along

Initially I had used the MD State gov't "contact your elected official" tool which is here:

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/Webmga/frmmain.aspx?pid=legisrpage&tab=subject6&poptype=find&popid=

You put your address in there and it will generate emails to them. When it's done that way, the mails are flagged in their inbox and they know it's actually a constituent. I had used that tool to contact all three of my Delegates prior to the magazine limit bill vote. One of them totally ignored me, the second shot back a generic "I agree with you and will vote against it" email. The third one sent me a personalized email and then friended me on Facebook.

When these bills came up and I saw that all three of my guys had voted for them, I was just as angry as everyone else here, and I sent emails stating that I was upset and why, and that this would cost them my votes.

Same guy as before got back to me, and we ended up spending quite a bit of time on the phone, so when it comes down to it, I think it's just each Delegate or Senator and the choices they make. This particular guy is running for state Senate this fall, so he's probably extra responsive right now.

Agreed. Civility, not profanity and threats are the order of the day. But when you vote against a major part of your constituency(and one historically known to be very active and vocal), don't be surprised when you trigger emotions.

This is absolutely true. But I think that the important distinction here is that it is absolutely possible to hold someone's feet to the fire about these votes without being a jerk or alienating them in the process. I made it clear that I was very upset about the vote, and he took the time to explain to me why he voted as he did, as well as allowing me to explain some of the intricacies of the issues surrounding these laws. The upshot of it is that he is asking for input on amendments to the red flag bill, as well as that he's going to come shooting with me soon.

Both of these are positive outcomes that absolutely wouldn't have happened had I been abusive to him.

This isn't a gun issue. It's a Constitution issue. You know, due process and all. Regardless of how many people they've heard from on one side or the other, you have to uphold and not violate the Constitution. Maybe I'm expecting too much that politicians honor the document they swore to uphold.

I agree with you. And in this case (ok, it's Miele) he actually knows his stuff when it comes to the Constitution, and generally thinks about it like we all do (he's mostly an originalist, understands the proper meaning of the wording of the second amendment, all of it). He was just in a really tough spot when it came to this particular bill and made a decision which he says (and I believe him) that he honestly now regrets. To his credit, he's trying to find ways to fix the damage that's been done. I know I've made a ton of mistakes, or choices in my life that I've later regretted, and I respect the fact that he's manning up, taking responsibility, and trying to fix it.



.


Honestly everyone, I'm sorry about the rant earlier. We're all on the same side here. I just thought the complaining was getting a little out of hand, and I truly believe that if we want to be effective we have to be both realists and not jerks.

 

[44man]

Fine, but can you take that to another thread, please?

This one was initially very useful for actually tracking what was going on with the bill, and now there are page after page of "omg I hate these faketraitorassholejerkfacenotrealrepublicans" type ranting that is, frankly, useless.

And it hurts our cause.

I have spent hours on the phone with elected officials this week, talking with them and educating them about the issues surrounding both this and the bump stock bill. You'd be surprised what you can get done when you approach them like people instead of ranting.

In fact, you know what got said a bunch of times? "I am sick of being called a traitor and being yelled at. I wish more people would just talk to me, because then I'd be more wiling to listen." Guys, a certain amount of anger about stuff like this is fine and useful. Acting on that is fine and useful. But when you go off the hook and cuss people out, it hurts our cause.

The facts of the matter are that these (mainly Republicans, I'm speaking of) folks are elected office holders in a state that is mainly hostile to them. They also have moire constituents to serve than just you and I and other gun people. One guy I spoke to this week said "hey, if I'd known there were more people like you out there I might have voted differently" because he had gotten a sum total of two phone calls about it from our side, and a flood from the other side.

But if we work with them and act like normal, mature, responsible people who can speak sensibly about the issues instead of frothing at the mouth and hurling insults, we can get a lot more done.

I actually had one of the members of the house ask me to please write up some proposed amendments to fix this POS Red Flag bill and send them to him so he can propose them if it gets bounced back. See how that works?

What you have done is let your reps know that they can strip you of your rights and you will be nice and thank them for it.

I have had enough in this thread, y’all have fun doing exactly the Same thing every year and hoping for different results

 

[iH8DemLibz]

What you have done is let your reps know that they can strip you of your rights and you will be nice and thank them for it.

I have had enough in this thread, y’all have fun doing exactly the Same thing every year and hoping for different results

The definition of insanity.

 

[Hawkeye]

I have had enough in this thread, y’all have fun doing exactly the Same thing every year and hoping for different results

And yet you have posed exactly zero other possible solutions to the issue other than "I'm taking my toys and leaving." If you've got good ideas, put them forth!

 

[Biggfoot44]

Patience Grasshoppers , April 10, 2018 is coming.

Meanwhile , continue as much positive engagement with current Officeholders as possible.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

What you have done is let your reps know that they can strip you of your rights and you will be nice and thank them for it.

I have had enough in this thread, y’all have fun doing exactly the Same thing every year and hoping for different results

I agree with 44man. If they are supported for not voting in our favor because they are better than the alternative, they can basically do anything.

 

[Parttime]

I agree with 44man. If they are supported for not voting in our favor because the are better than the alternative, the can basically do anything.

What he ^ said.

 

[Hawkeye]

I agree with 44man. If they are supported for not voting in our favor because the are better than the alternative, the can basically do anything.

That may be the case.

However, the reality on the ground in Maryland is that the current crop of legislators is likely about as conservative as we are likely to get. We can try and submarine them because they voted one time in a way we don't like, or we can try and work with them to get them to understand our viewpoints and what we think should be done.

I know people here like to hate on Hogan for not waving a magic wand and fixing all of our 2A related issues with MD but the fact is that the man is in a very blue state and he has to play the game to a) stay in office and b) get *anything* done at all. Likewise with all of our legislators.

Sure, the game is rigged against us, but I think it's important enough to play.

 

[rockstarr]

That may be the case.

However, the reality on the ground in Maryland is that the current crop of legislators is likely about as conservative as we are likely to get. We can try and submarine them because they voted one time in a way we don't like, or we can try and work with them to get them to understand our viewpoints and what we think should be done.

I know people here like to hate on Hogan for not waving a magic wand and fixing all of our 2A related issues with MD but the fact is that the man is in a very blue state and he has to play the game to a) stay in office and b) get *anything* done at all. Likewise with all of our legislators.

Sure, the game is rigged against us, but I think it's important enough to play.

While I understand this idea regarding Larry Hogan and his 2A stance, I in turn, turn my head when he doesn't go full blown 2A, because I understand why he cant.

However, when he goes anti 2A, and signs legislation into law that takes away from my families rights, I cannot and will not in good conscience vote for him again.

fair is fair

 

[Occam]

However, when he goes anti 2A, and signs legislation into law that takes away from my families rights, I cannot and will not in good conscience vote for him again.

So your preference, over someone who does what he can in our interests given the circumstances, is to choose instead to have someone who is guaranteed to actively act against our interests, all the time, under all circumstances?

 

[rockstarr]

So your preference, over someone who does what he can in our interests given the circumstances, is to choose instead to have someone who is guaranteed to actively act against our interests, all the time, under all circumstances?

Yes, I understand why he does some of the things he does, and can even live with most.

I wont however, stand there and vote for someone who votes to take away something dear to me. ( If he ends up doing so)

If more people thought like this, We would have more REAL conservatives in office nationwide instead of " the best we can" men and women because they vote against our beliefs less harshly.

If things end up bad enough, people would start coming together and realize whats being done to us all.

 

[Occam]

If things end up bad enough, people would start coming together and realize whats being done to us all.

No, if things up bad enough, they will never be undone. That's what we're facing.