Gun Trust Questions

[huntman21014]

Not if you have a trust but that's beside the issue; OP is looking to purchase a regulated firearm via trust thereby circumventing the state prohibition on purchase by those under 21. That's known as conspiracy to commit a felony and, under Maryland wacky interpretation of firearms ownership law, likely a straw purchase as well.

Good times. Look at about 10 years or more there bub.

Its not necessarily his acts or those of his trustee that are illegal, it is the intent of those actions as demonstrated by his OP which clearly shows and inclination to team up with a permitted person in an effort to allow an unpermitted person to purchase and possess a regulated firearm.

That said, if OP is a PA resident, why not just purchase there if legal to do so? Why try and circumvent Maryland laws and risk jail when you can purchase the item legally across state lines? I am not commenting on whether OP legally can do this of course, just asking some questions that my sleep fogged mind spit out.

I was just wondering if it was possible and legal, I certainly don't want to commit a crime which is why I asked the questions. I live in PA as well as MD but am not sure if the time I spend in both states constitues residency, again legally. Wouldn't legally buying something that I can in PA but cannot in MD be circumventing the laws by bringing the gun into maryland? Again not trying to commit a crime just asking a question. I also didn't know if the trust owned the guns if I would I be buying them at all so I didn't know if my age would be an issue at all.

Setting up a trust to manage NFA property for the benefit of others is not a loophole so quit using that language. Words have meanings, use them appropriately. Said trusts are part of and integral to the law. Said trusts do not circumvent any legal protections; rather, they are part of a subset of NFA owners who are not subject to the individual possessor/purchaser requirements.

A loophole is a flaw or gap in the law whereby ne'er-do-wells can plausibly justify their spurious actions.

I again didn't mean all NFA trusts are loopholes, I am talking about people who get one only because there CLEO won't sign off on them. Even in different states this is done where the CLEO doesn't like NFA items. By setting up a trust so the person doesn't have to deal with their CLEO is that not a legal loophole? Without the trust that person wouldn't be able to get that NFA item but the trust doesn't need CLEO sign off on anything.

I am once again not trying to commit any crimes but just looking for information on what is and isn't legal so I do not do anything illegal. If the trust purchases a handgun that isn't regulated such as C&R no law is circumvented other than a FFL not able to transfer handguns to someone under 21 but it wouldn't need to be transferred anyway as it is C&R. Maryland has no laws saying possession and ownership of a handgun under 21 is illegal only regulated firearms and the illegal part is the purchase and ownership of the regulated firearm. If the trust owns the regulated firearm then how would I be taking ownership? I guess maryland considers possession and ownership the same thing or is it illegal for someone under 21 to fire a regulated firearm as well?

 

[Dave.B]

I was just wondering if it was possible and legal, I certainly don't want to commit a crime which is why I asked the questions. I live in PA as well as MD but am not sure if the time I spend in both states constitues residency, again legally. Wouldn't legally buying something that I can in PA but cannot in MD be circumventing the laws by bringing the gun into maryland? Again not trying to commit a crime just asking a question. I also didn't know if the trust owned the guns if I would I be buying them at all so I didn't know if my age would be an issue at all.

I again didn't mean all NFA trusts are loopholes, I am talking about people who get one only because there CLEO won't sign off on them. Even in different states this is done where the CLEO doesn't like NFA items. By setting up a trust so the person doesn't have to deal with their CLEO is that not a legal loophole? Without the trust that person wouldn't be able to get that NFA item but the trust doesn't need CLEO sign off on anything.

I am once again not trying to commit any crimes but just looking for information on what is and isn't legal so I do not do anything illegal. If the trust purchases a handgun that isn't regulated such as C&R no law is circumvented other than a FFL not able to transfer handguns to someone under 21 but it wouldn't need to be transferred anyway as it is C&R. Maryland has no laws saying possession and ownership of a handgun under 21 is illegal only regulated firearms and the illegal part is the purchase and ownership of the regulated firearm. If the trust owns the regulated firearm then how would I be taking ownership? I guess maryland considers possession and ownership the same thing or is it illegal for someone under 21 to fire a regulated firearm as well?

Handguns in Maryland are regulated regardless of federal classification as a curio and relic. Under 21 cannot possess a regulated firearm, except for very specific circumstances. Maryland Code spells it out pretty plainly.

 

[huntman21014]

Handguns in Maryland are regulated regardless of federal classification as a curio and relic. Under 21 cannot possess a regulated firearm, except for very specific circumstances. Maryland Code spells it out pretty plainly.

Thats all I was asking so thank you, I was under the impression after talking with a deputy , not MSP but a county deputy, that MD went by the federal C&R list so if the gun was on that list it was considered an antique here in MD as well as that is what I was told.

Ill say it again that I wasn't trying to break any laws but was just wondering if it was legal and I now know that it is not legal and that I have to wait until I turn 21 even for C&R purchases.

 

[mikec]

Thats all I was asking so thank you, I was under the impression after talking with a deputy , not MSP but a county deputy, that MD went by the federal C&R list so if the gun was on that list it was considered an antique here in MD as well as that is what I was told.

Ill say it again that I wasn't trying to break any laws but was just wondering if it was legal and I now know that it is not legal and that I have to wait until I turn 21 even for C&R purchases.

Antique to ATF means made on or before 1898. C&R is 50 years old or meets other criteria. C&R does NOT mean antique.

 

[huntman21014]

I meant C&R for maryland purposes as I was told it wasn't regulated if it was on the federal C&R list. Kinda scary a deputy doesn't know that and is giving advice now that I think about it.

 

[Walter]

Bunch of guys here always try to bust your balls for no reason. Obviously the OP is here posting because he wants to know if there's any way he can buy a handgun while he's under the age of 21 LEGALLY.

I remember when I signed up here that was one of the first things I asked - if there were any legal way for me, being under 21, to get a handgun (I specifically asked about being gifted it from a family member). Immediately I was told I was suspicious, accused of straw purchasing, wanting to break the law, blah blah blah a whole bunch of ********.

News flash: If we wanted to break the law, we would not be here asking how to LEGALLY buy a pistol. We would just buy it off the street. It's that easy. No NFA, no trusts, no gun shops, no gun shows, no police, nothing.

 

[huntman21014]

Bunch of guys here always try to bust your balls for no reason. Obviously the OP is here posting because he wants to know if there's any way he can buy a handgun while he's under the age of 21 LEGALLY.

I remember when I signed up here that was one of the first things I asked - if there were any legal way for me, being under 21, to get a handgun (I specifically asked about being gifted it from a family member). Immediately I was told I was suspicious, accused of straw purchasing, wanting to break the law, blah blah blah a whole bunch of ********.

News flash: If we wanted to break the law, we would not be here asking how to LEGALLY buy a pistol. We would just buy it off the street. It's that easy. No NFA, no trusts, no gun shops, no gun shows, no police, nothing.

Thanks for the support and I admit I may not have made that clear but by no means was I trying to break any laws and I have found out that a officer who informed me was wrong about C&R not being regulated.

 

[Boom Boom]

Very true. County deputies (and LEOs in general) are not experts on federal or state firearms law. Neither are random members of an internet forum. There is no decent substitute for paid legal advice from a lawyer specializing in the field when the potential consequences are dire if you get it wrong. Your freedom is certainly not worth the risk of getting it wrong. Be safe.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

No. Everything you have described in both threads is illegal. The sale or transfer of a regulated firearm to a person under 21 is prohibited in Maryland. Period.

Continuing to push the issue after several members have given you the same answer makes people suspicious. Call it Battered Gun Owner Syndrome. That happens in MD. This forum is regularly viewed by journalists, lawmakers, and various anti-gun organizations. Please do not give them more reason to view gun owners in a bad light.

 

[huntman21014]

No. Everything you have described in both threads is illegal. The sale or transfer of a regulated firearm to a person under 21 is prohibited in Maryland. Period.

Continuing to push the issue after several members have given you the same answer makes people suspicious. Call it Battered Gun Owner Syndrome. That happens in MD. This forum is regularly viewed by journalists, lawmakers, and various anti-gun organizations. Please do not give them more reason to view gun owners in a bad light.

Like I stated earlier I was told by a deputy that C&R handguns weren't regulated and I was seeking clarification. I also thought that if the gun was in a trust I wouldn't be purchasing nor transferring it to myself and was wondering if that was possible as well as legal. I already knew it was impossible to purchase it myself but wondered if things changed when a trust was involved. I wasn't trying to break any laws and did feel like people were jumping all over me for asking a question.

 

[HeatSeeker]

I am certainly no authority on any of this, but my advice is DON'T DO IT! Wait 9 more months. It will go by faster than you think, believe me.

I would think at this point in your life you would be thinking more about turning 21 so you can legally drink and purchase booze then wanting to buy a handgun.

 

[HeatSeeker]

Bunch of guys here always try to bust your balls for no reason. Obviously the OP is here posting because he wants to know if there's any way he can buy a handgun while he's under the age of 21 LEGALLY.

I remember when I signed up here that was one of the first things I asked - if there were any legal way for me, being under 21, to get a handgun (I specifically asked about being gifted it from a family member). Immediately I was told I was suspicious, accused of straw purchasing, wanting to break the law, blah blah blah a whole bunch of ********.

News flash: If we wanted to break the law, we would not be here asking how to LEGALLY buy a pistol. We would just buy it off the street. It's that easy. No NFA, no trusts, no gun shops, no gun shows, no police, nothing.

News Flash: Most MDS forum users really do not want to participate in or see threads that consist of illegal activity on the forum. When you ask for advice and then get it from a bunch of people that know better, don't think of it as getting your balls busted. Just take it.

 

[Blacksmith101]

People tend to get a little testy when someone is impaitent to wait 3 months, 6 months, or maybe a year until they are 21. When there are people on this forum who have been waiting for longer than they have been alive for a chance to get a permit to carry a perfectally legal already owned firearm.

Blacksmith101

 

[Merlin]

I know the easiest thing to do would be to wait until I turn 21 but plan on setting up the trust anyway for NFA items as my local LEO has already said he will not sign off on supressors or short barrel rifles under any circumstances. Getting ATF paperwork is a huge hassle and waiting until I turn 21 turns a 3 month process into a 9+ month process.

Legally I can own a pistol but cannot purchase one in the state of maryland and if I had a good and substantial reason could get a CCP. The problem is the state won't transfer to someone under 21 and FFL's cannot transfer a handgun to someone under 21.

If the pistol is exempt from the handgun roster would MSP even get involved in a transfer if a FFL transferred the pistol to the trust?

All good question for the trust attorney, answered by anyone else will just be hot air.

 

[Biggfoot44]

You have already received multiple replies from a Md Atty who specializes in Trusts and Firerms issues. Heed them. Chill out for 6 months.

 

[LCPIWB]

My first read of the original post this is what I picked up.

Damn 9months is a long time...If I wait until I turn 21 and start paperwork that means I will be 22 before I can play with my toys...
Maybe if someone over 21 can setup the Trust and get the paper work rolling, so when I turn 21 I can join the trust and enjoy my toys when I hit 21.

Looking at the posts of the OP, I don't think he explained himself to that effect.
OP feel free to chime in and clarify if that is the point you were trying to express.

 

[navycraig]

I know that is the simple and easy answer it just irks the hell out of me is all and I was hoping there was some loophole to shave some months off the process.

I just don't see why someone who is in the trust and is fully able to purchase the handgun cannot put the handgun in the trust and since I am also named in the trust cannot take possession of the firearm.

Let me ask you this question and please be honest in your answer.
If you think it should be okay for you to do at 20, where would you draw the line with respect to age? Should an 18 year old be okay? 16?

I understand your frustration, but the simple answer is, as many have pointed out, the law is the law and looking for a loophole that fits your purpose is looking for trouble, IMO.

My advice: Be patient, stay involved, join the fight for your rights and enjoy your 20th year. 21 will come soon enough and you'll age and be an old fart like most of the rest of us soon enough. Don't rush it.

 

[FFBWMD]

OP, not sure how you can have "dual residency" either you live in MD or PA one has to be a primary residence. If PA is your primary residence, then you cannot purchase a handgun in MD anyway. Vice versus if MD is your primary residence you cannot purchase a handgun in PA. So which drivers license do you have?

 

[Merlin]

We all have seen some offer, give away, or deal that some company is offering and in the fine print notes they say; "Offer is good except where prohibited." That's because what they are offering is legal in some states and not in others.

Well it is the same here. In Maryland it is PROHIBITED to own a regulated firearm under the age of 21. As far as a trusts go, I do not know the first thing about them. But if your saying that in PA at the age of 20 you legally can be connected to the same trust that owns the gun, I assume you could own the gun in any state that let's a 20 year old own a gun. That leaves Maryland out because you are not old enough for Maryland law. "Except where prohibited".

What your asking about is that same as saying; "well I have a Utah and Fla CCW, how come I can't carry in Maryland?" The answer is because you can't!

In Maryland 20 y.o. and regulated guns are prohibited, end of story.

 

[erwos]

OP, not sure how you can have "dual residency" either you live in MD or PA one has to be a primary residence. If PA is your primary residence, then you cannot purchase a handgun in MD anyway. Vice versus if MD is your primary residence you cannot purchase a handgun in PA. So which drivers license do you have?

Military? Or he possibly splits his time between residences in two places (3 months there, 9 months here). My understanding is that federal residency requirements as per the GCA are not as strict as some people make them out to be.

That said, I agree with the crowd: you can't be under 20 in MD and possess a regulated gun. Period, end of story. Very similar to how, if I were a dual resident of MD and PA, I can't go to PA, buy an Uzi pistol, and bring it back here.