Do you even tactical reload, bro?

[Blaster229]

The whole rack the slide thread the other day had me thinking about reloads.
I was going to get into a whole tirade and exude my extreme operatorness about this, but found a PERFECT article that talks about how useless it is.
There is no "lull" in a gunfight. It is either happening or it is over. Simple as that.
"But Mike, what if we need those 2 extra rounds after emptying that 2nd mag?"

My response would be " Why weren't those 2 left over rounds your first 2 shots that should have made lethal hits?"

This article is full of no bs win.

Discuss and enjoy!

NSFW

http://www.breachbangclear.com/********-or-the-myth-of-the-tactical-reload/

 

[BradMacc82]

Never too early for popcorn.

 

[hogarth]

Read this yesterday. Torn. I certainly don't think it's worth spending too much training time on. Thankfully, most if the instructors I've trained with don't spend much time on it, and when they do, they don't care if you pull the partial, stow it, and then put in new, or if you do the quick one hand exchange thing he's describing.

For military or police, who could be involved in a protracted, start-stop-start active shooter(s) event, it makes more sense than Joe Blo civilian.

 

[clandestine]

Blaster, it may be wise to put a NSFW warning on the link. That site has stuff that isn't safe to view at work.

 

[Huckleberry]

This is a little bit better article on the topic without the chest thumping and "F*ck Yeah" mentality.

http://tagtrainingllc.com/?p=248

In combat when you need to reload, you better be behind some nice thick cover for you ass.

Cooper's tactical reload has it's roots in the El Presidente drill trying to teach smoothness, rthymn and situational awareness. Trying the drill with only 6 in the wheel and a speed loader was a humbling experience to say he least. If the El Presidente were a real life scenario, you better have a horseshoe shoved up your ass for luck not to take a hit and/or survive it.

 

[Blaster229]

Blaster, it may be wise to put a NSFW warning on the link. That site has stuff that isn't safe to view at work.

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Blaster229]

This is a little bit better article on the topic without the chest thumping and "F*ck Yeah" mentality.

http://tagtrainingllc.com/?p=248

In combat when you need to reload, you better be behind some nice thick cover for you ass.

Cooper's tactical reload has it's roots in the El Presidente drill trying to teach smoothness, rthymn and situational awareness. Trying the drill with only 6 in the wheel and a speed loader was a humbling experience to say he least.

Not sure what emergency reloading has to do with this 1 hand, 2 mag exchange?

 

[Huckleberry]

Not sure what emergency reloading has to do with this 1 hand, 2 mag exchange?

Are you talking the tactic or the technique used in the tactic? 1 Hand/2Mags is the techinique used unless you have small hands

Now much difference between a tactical reload or emergency reload when your swapping mags and trying to retain the partial or empty mag.

With a revolver, trying to release the cyclinder, shuck the empties and reload with speed loader is a true art form. Amazing that Jerry Miculek can do it faster than most shooters with a magazine.

 

[Biggfoot44]

It's a slippery slope to start saying that (XYZ) is not common in civillian gunfights , and is therefore not important, and not worth leaning/ knowing/ being able to do. I can think of several skills that might be "not typically needed" that are indeed important , and should be learned. Tis' better to know and be capable, and not often need it, than need it, and be severely disadvantaged those occasions you really do need it.

All that said, so called Tactical Reloads don't make the juice - squeeze ratios on multiple contexts. If you are reloading when there is any possability of an ongoing need of needing a gun for its intended purpose, reload like you mean it, and be quick about it. If there is zero possability of needing it , an administrative reload with retention isn't that much slower than a tactical reload, and much less likely to fumble under stress/ after effects of adreneline dump. If the situation is unclear, or you aren't sure the situation is 100% calm, do a speed reload, and if situation allows , bend down to recover dropped mag while holding a fully loaded ready to use pistol. If you are concerned you might not have enough remaining rounds available ( if dropped mag is not easily retrievable with one hand and pereferial vision, that is a *Sign* that you aren't carrying enough spare magizenes ( or BUG's) .


[ And if you can see where a semiauto Tactical Reload is questionable , such a thing as a DA revolver Tactical Reload exists, and is on my short list of the stupidest things ever concieved. And I can assure you there is 0% chance I will ever do so, except for once a yr when required to do so.]

 

[Biggfoot44]

Meanwhile at the replys posted while I was typing :

By definition an Emergency Reload does NOT involve 2 mags/1 hand, or for that matter simultanious retention of ejected magazine.

 

[BigT5g]

While I'm not a fan of his "I am 100% right and all other trainers and techniques are wrong" mentality I do agree with this article.

We teach what is usually called the "tactical reload" but we don't call it that. We just call it a reload and it is used to reload the gun. Its as simple as that. But. things change in a gunfight.

If you are in a gunfight like the author says then indeed you will shoot until the BG stops shooting, or gun stops shooting.
If the gun stops shooting(due to lack of rounds syndrome) during the gunfight you perform an "emergency reload" (we actually think of this, and treat it like a malfunction.) and get the gun back running as fast as possible using the slide stop method (UH OH...) in most cases and continue the gunfight.

That being said, if you need more than the capacity of a standard magazine then you are in deep and should have brought a rifle...

 

[Huckleberry]

Meanwhile at the replys posted while I was typing :

By definition an Emergency Reload does NOT involve 2 mags/1 hand, or for that matter simultanious retention of ejected magazine.

The difference it seems is Do you plan to retain the empty mag or are you chucking it and hope to police it up later given the circumstance?

Is that the difference you seek? The it's entirely up to the shooter and their technique.

The problem that I have seen and encountered is not all mags drop free and clear the mag well. Some do hang up and need a tug. Now if my hand is already making contact with the empty mag, makes no sense to me to throw it on the ground after I loaded the new one and released the slide back into battery.

 

[Blaster229]

The point is twofold
Pulling a mag out with your hand while you are holding one, which is a tactical mess, and two, needing two or three rounds later. You'll not need them because statistics say you'll never be in a shootout.
Well thirdly, you won't have a shot count, so say you exchange one that has 8 rounds? You gonna change that one back? It's too much going on.

 

[Huckleberry]

The point is twofold
Pulling a mag out with your hand while you are holding one, which is a tactical mess, and two, needing two or three rounds later. You'll not need them because statistics say you'll never be in a shootout.
Well thirdly, you won't have a shot count, so say you exchange one that has 8 rounds? You gonna change that one back? It's too much going on.

+100 Blaster plus add a few curves and monkey wrenches like FTF or human physiological responses and we have one interesting and intriguing thread.

Nice diversion from all the other crap we've been discussing

Thanks

 

[Blaster229]

I have done so many sims shooting scenarios at work, gunfights then getting compliance and having a "lull" and not once, ever in 14 years did a magazine exchange. When you're in a pause, you're still in it. Taking your eyes off the playing field can be detrimental. It's over when you shot everyone who needs to be shot. It's still game on until then.

In my line of work, our blasters need to be out maintaining compliance. If I'm doing that with two rounds, do be it. I fire those, I reload and stay in the fight.

I'll never see a reason for it. It's one less technique I need to be concerned with. Keep it simple stupid, right?

 

[hogarth]

The other thought I had is that I've taken classes with the author of the article, and I know he's good for a Carbine class (or three, or five) per year.

Yet how often to civilians use ARs to defend themselves from bad guys? It happens now and them, but overall it's a statistical anomaly, yet it's something he seems to spend his training time and $ doing.

Here is Paul Howe's take...notice, he gives options:

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=SX9Y9FAK51U

 

[Blaster229]

Thought we were talking about pistol magazine exchanges during a gunfight?

 

[hogarth]

Thought we were talking about pistol magazine exchanges during a gunfight?

Who isn't?

 

[Bikebreath]

I read the article...point taken. Makes sense.

The tac-reload is an IDPA thing I've learned, but I can see it's application isn't as big as getting on target from the git-go and dispatching of the problem. Less doing acrobatics with your off-hand. Never really thought about it from a practical sense. Thanks.

 

[Blaster229]

Who isn't?

Well you mentioned civilians using ARs for defense and posted a link. So.......