DL copied when buying gun

[pilotguy]

District Court Commissioner in the Maryland Judicial district that the violation occurred:

http://www.courts.state.md.us/district/directories/commissionermap.html

 

[mikec]

We do it for a couple reasons. The first being when we go to book items out and we cannot read the customers hand writing. The second being that if anything happens and down the road we receive an ATF trace request, we want definitive proof that this was the person and this was the ID they presented.

For the first part, imagine if the forms could be filled out using a typewriter. Better yet would be a PDF version of a 4473 that can be filled out and printed. No writing needed except for signature.

For the second part, is anything beyond what is on the 4473 required by law?? What is next, a shop fingerprinting a buyer so that they can give ATF more proof???

 

[Engage Armament]

For the first part, imagine if the forms could be filled out using a typewriter. Better yet would be a PDF version of a 4473 that can be filled out and printed. No writing needed except for signature.

For the second part, is anything beyond what is on the 4473 required by law?? What is next, a shop fingerprinting a buyer so that they can give ATF more proof???

There are programs which will automatically fill out the 4473. All that is required is for the customer to answer the questions and sign/date.

This isn't about the law. This is about CYA.

 

[Engage Armament]

Filing charges? Are you all being serious?

 

[Inigoes]

Filing charges? Are you all being serious?

That would be an interesting, discussion with an ATF auditor, who suggests retaining a copy of the DL though. The ATF recommending a FFL break the law, that is.

 

[kalister1]

Why would that surprise you? The ATF gives guns to criminals to murder our border patrol agents.

 

[Inigoes]

16-302 is about duplicating as in making ANY copy of a license.

du·pli·cate/ˈd(y)o͞opləˌkāt/
Verb: Make or be an exact copy of.
Adjective: Exactly like something else, esp. through having been copied.

It even addresses faxed copies of state issued ID cards in sub section b.

I did not issue very many citations for photocopied licenses under 16-302 but all of them resulted in successful convictions. There is also a lot of case law about photocopied drivers licenses under 16-302.

as long as the copy is in Black and white it's legal

(b) Production of facsimile identification card.- A person may not produce a facsimile of an identification card issued by the Administration or a driver's license unless the facsimile is:

(1) In black and white; or

(2) Less than one-half or more than twice the size of the identification card issued by the Administration or driver's license.

 

[pilotguy]

It is a bit tight with that section, because with the case law behind it, "facsimile" has been defined as an actual "facsimile" or fax machine. One would think that a simple legislative change could insert wording explicitly allowing for photocopies as well.

 

[Engage Armament]

As Inigoes states and as a supervisor at the MVA stated:

(b) A person may not produce a facsimile of an identification card issued by the Administration or a driver's license unless the facsimile is:

(1) In black and white; or

(2) Less than one-half or more than twice the size of the identification card issued by the Administration or driver's license.


THAT IS ALL.

 

[Inigoes]

THAT IS ALL.

Dang, were you sweating it?

Be sure to bring that specific law up to an auditor, and let us know what they say.

 

[Engage Armament]

Dang, were you sweating it?

Be sure to bring that specific law up to an auditor, and let us know what they say.

I certainly will.

Absolutely I was sweating it. I was pissed. I called MVA and spoke to a supervisor who was nice enough to look up the law.

It reminds me of the whole "releasing a firearm in 7 days without a response back from the MSP". I remember someone posted on here to inform the FFL that they are breaking the law and demand the release of the firearm. Well, lo and behold, a customer does exactly that. What they fail to realize is that federal law prohibits releasing a firearm without a NICS number. THAT IS A REVOCABLE OFFENSE. I just never knew there were so many attorneys on this website.

Im been making an effort to comment on things to give a better insight into how the actual business/compliance side works, but its seems like so many people on here either don't appreciate that or know far better than I do. Its just frustrating.

 

[bbrown]

Im been making an effort to comment on things to give a better insight into how the actual business/compliance side works, but its seems like so many people on here either don't appreciate that or know far better than I do. Its just frustrating.

This site has (probably more than) its fair share of know-it-alls, blowhards, and folks with negative attitudes about life. It's probably best just to smile and shake your head at their inane and petty remarks and move on. It helps make life less stressful.

Bryan

 

[clandestine]

Pilotguy, thank you very much for that information. When you say "going to the Commissioner's office" to fill out charges, who is the Commissioner? Is that the head of the MD DMV? So you could do it at the DMV or would you have to go to Annapolis?

I would like you to elaborate your intent with that comment. If you plan on filing charges against the gunshop that wanted to copy your state ID then that's pathetic. And if so, let me just say Karma is a bitch.

 

[Inigoes]

Its just frustrating.

MD laws are just frustrating period.

 

[clandestine]

Im been making an effort to comment on things to give a better insight into how the actual business/compliance side works, but its seems like so many people on here either don't appreciate that or know far better than I do. Its just frustrating.

Don't sweat it. Some people think they know something because they googled it. There's never a shortage of retards on the internet. These legal eagles oddly never try their internet bravado in a shop. Yeah they bought a gun and they are gonna take it.

Last guy who tried that at scoffs pisses his pants when we responded to his awesomeness.

 

[Name Taken]

Bring up that traffic charge must have been a joke?

ID's get copied all the times and there is no criminal offense. Every year when I go to the Doctors they photocopy.

You couldnt get the most conservative states attorney let alone judge do anything with that charge. And you'd be lucky to find a court commish who is going to find Probable Cause if a civilian initated transportation article "case".

I have zero issues with a gun shop photocopying my ID as long as the information is kept secured and only produced under a court order. It covers them in a highly hostile business they are already doing.

 

[Funbrit]

I certainly will.

Im been making an effort to comment on things to give a better insight into how the actual business/compliance side works, but its seems like so many people on here either don't appreciate that or know far better than I do. Its just frustrating.

Hmmm that sounds familiar, I think I have said that to you on more than one occasion when in your shop, ignore the know it all types and the argumentative ones and all will be good, plus insight from a FFL01 is always appreciated.

 

[Engage Armament]

Bring up that traffic charge must have been a joke?

Pilotguy, Esq. certainly didnt make it sound like a joke.

 

[Inigoes]

Pilotguy, Esq. certainly didnt make it sound like a joke.

Scratch one contestant from the Haiku uno uno contest

 

[RedViperinMD]

Andy, no need to get frustrated. All you need to do is look at the political mess that is the USA to realize that 80% of the people you deal with on a daily basis (including those on this site) are semi-functional retards. If you go into every situation with that understanding, you'll almost never be disappointed, and sometimes, you'll even be pleasantly surprised. Take it easy Boss!