Merlin
Ultimate Member
Agreed, but add in don't do anything that places you in the sights of a LEO.
CCW and the law.
- Thread starter JimH4662
- Start date
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Agreed, but add in don't do anything that places you in the sights of a LEO.
Merlin
Ultimate Member
I would say your asking for trouble by doing so.
NateIU10
Ultimate Member
Correct. I think there is a later effective date, but one effective, that is my reading.
If no 2 fails it's an illegal search and any evidence found would be most likely inadmissible. IMHO IANAL or LEO.
see "fruit of the poisinous tree" I'm sure our LEO's will weigh in and tell me I'm wrong.
NateIU10
Ultimate Member
Consent isn't the only way to search a car though, so that's way too broad a statement.
Merlin
Ultimate Member
I wonder if that was Pa's intent? The reason I ask is PA was or is trying to stop PA residents that could not get a PA permit from turning to Fla for a permit. It wasn't too stop the rest of the US, just PA residents.
They can search if you are arrested but without PC, how would they justify a search? Politely decline. I know they can search the car's interior without PC but forcing open a trunk absent an arrest would be a stertch IMO.
NateIU10
Ultimate Member
The AG's office stated it was in order to stop PA residents from getting FL non-resident permits and not PA permits. They altered the reciprocity far more than that, which appears to be within their statutory authority. Some people think they just worded it lazily and it covered more than intended. Some, like myself, believe it was purposeful. The number of MD and NJ residents with FL nonresident permits is pretty large, and I cannot imagine they didn't know that.
First Democratic AG in the state's history since it became an elected position. Stated she wants to make getting guns harder and no "weapons of war" on her streets. She wants to let local governments, like Philly, enact laws more restrictive than the state, even though there is preemption and the PA Constitution.
So yeah, I don't think they went broader by accident, but that's just me.
NateIU10
Ultimate Member
RAS for a "pat down" of the vehicle interior in a car without a separated trunk is what came to my mind. Dogs that sniff out guns, which isn't even a search. Plain view doctrine.
I don't really feel like getting out my concrimpro stuff, but there are a good amount of ways to "search".
Macsti
Member
Just lock it in a case in the trunk, problem solved.
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
Md law does not require a lock as far as I know. Federal law does. I prefer to comply with federal law, since it is stronger.
You must also consider theft and other concerns.
Also locked boxes and cases are not generally subject to an officers Safety search since they can not be accessed by the person being detained. This means unless you do something to justify PC there is no chance the firearm issue will come up.
A great lock box is.....
the trunk
ETA: If you have one. If not, a lock box is required.
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
The fl requirements are stronger than the pa requirements. And if denied in your resident state you will be denied in fl. Period.
Standard big lie technique. No democrats can be trusted.
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
If the travel is interstate you can claim fopa as an affirmative defense, provided your transport is compliant with fopa. Fopa requires locks and ammo seperated stored and I would not push it with loaded mags.
Also MD will try and claim that once you stop in MD you are not covered by fopa. I do not think this has been challenged ,but in NJ the police have been instructed not to create test cases,as they know they are on thin ice. It is usefull to buy gas in PA WITH A CREDIT CARD TO ESTABLISH A TIME LINE. Should it be needed.
Much work needs to be done on fopa. Use locks, decline search. Keep an attorney contact card ready and invoke council. Then stop talking.
NateIU10
Ultimate Member
FOPA only requires a locked container when there is no trunk separate from the passenger compartment.
ETA:
ETA:
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
True. I have no trunk. I suggest locks and other security as additional theft protection. And you will be covered with or without a trunk...but you are correct and I should have been more specific.
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
Trunk locks are easy to defeat. Theft wise. And I don't have one so I think that way by default.
But the trunk will be fine under the law as understand it.
bpSchoch
Active Member
Just a note: If you don't consent and they decide to do a search anyways, make sure to remind them explicitly that you are not consenting to their search of my xxxxx (i.e. trunk). You may have told them prior, but then they do it later, they could make a claim because you didn't protest at the time of the search, you consented. The law is confrontational in nature. Silence can be considered consent. Always make your position clear. Do not consent to search even if you think they have a right to, as it establishes your lack of consent, in case it is later found out that there was not a valid reason. If you consent when you think they have a reason, then the search can not be challenged as you consented.
5 post phenom. 
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
That interpretation is thin. Interstate travel is federal. Now you must comply with the law at each end point. You are traveling though Maryland to go to pa. You were in compliance at your home. And you will be in compliance at you destination. While in transit fopa is in force, but only if you are fopa compliant and that means locks or trunk etc.
What you can not do is leave your home at 10am spend half the day touring Maryland and then get to pa that eve. That is not transit. Nor can you leave a 10 cross into pa cross right back and soend the day touring Md.
It is an afrimative defense so you need to prove it in court.
That is why it is best to go directly .. but a 10 min break for gas and such should not be an issue.. we need fopa to be strengthened and clarified for those juristiction that think the constition is optional.
Ianal
