C&R's beware

[Rotmistrz]

Although that may give them authority to seize the specific item, it does not supersede their right to request a search warrant.

Rotmistrz, are you a C&R holder?

It is easy for you to say, but you are quite correct. Mr. Gasior had the right, under the Fourth Amendment, to request a warrant. Things could easily have escalated from there.

I am not a C&R holder.

 

[Spartan1771]

There is always the risk of things escalating, but if the individual is curious and respectful, the Officers have no reason to escalate anything. If the Officers are unprofessional and start escalating things, NEVER fight the Police. You won't win and it will make things worse.

 

[Rotmistrz]

We agree on that point.

 

[Markp]

No matter the validity of the Polish gov'ts claim, I can't see the legal basis for their seizing the gun without a court order.

Precisely, where was the due process in this?

Just because a previous Polish Govt built it, issued it, claim it was lost during wartime, and had subsequently wrote it off for years after the war doesn't mean that it is still theirs! Did the Polish government collect all the rifles from all sources other than those they disposed of through legitimate government sales? Or did they just decide they wanted this one particularly valuable rifle?

How did they prove that this one rifle was theirs? Did they do so in front of a judge? Did they ever file a legtimate claim?

Finally thereis a providence problem. The Polish government was re-formed after exile and a new government was recognized in 1952. The People's Republic of Poland ignored the previous sovereign government and at which time, I would argue the legitimate government and original owner of the asset (this rifle) had abandoned it.

Were does it make sense that the current, unrelated, Government of Poland owns this asset, which may or may not be theirs to begin with? Sorry, but DHS acted like a bunch of theives in the night and this is outrageous. Where is the due process?

 

[mh53gunner]

A few lessons here;

First, don't INVITE Federal agents into your house--they are not there for a friendly visit

Second, don't give them anything without a warrant

These concepts have been told to us over and over again. Force the agents to do things LEGALLY otherwise you're screwing yourself and making their job easier. Now the gun owner gets to hire a lawyer to either get his valuable gun back or recieve compensation for it.

Now having said that, I am disturbed that DHS is being sent to act as agents for foreign gov'ts to reclaim lost or looted war items. To just 'take it' is wrong on so many levels, but as a liberal progressive gov't. out to please everyone, our government doesn't have the courage to stand up and back the rights of it's citizens first and foremost.

If there is a question of looted war treasures then there is an established protocol for identifying it, determining legal ownership and adjudicating compensation. This protocol has been around since about 1946

Apparently our government stands for the rights of people, as long as it's not our own people.

Very well said. +1

 

[Spartan1771]

Precisely, where was the due process in this?

Just because a previous Polish Govt built it, issued it, claim it was lost during wartime, and had subsequently wrote it off for years after the war doesn't mean that it is still theirs! Did the Polish government collect all the rifles from all sources other than those they disposed of through legitimate government sales? Or did they just decide they wanted this one particularly valuable rifle?

How did they prove that this one rifle was theirs? Did they do so in front of a judge? Did they ever file a legtimate claim?

Finally thereis a providence problem. The Polish government was re-formed after exile and a new government was recognized in 1952. The People's Republic of Poland ignored the previous sovereign government and at which time, I would argue the legitimate government and original owner of the asset (this rifle) had abandoned it.

Were does it make sense that the current, unrelated, Government of Poland owns this asset, which may or may not be theirs to begin with? Sorry, but DHS acted like a bunch of theives in the night and this is outrageous. Where is the due process?

As I previously stated, I have to agree. Regardless of the item, its origin, the surround circumstances and the agency handling the issue, every American citizen is entitled to due process of the law. In my opinion, this situation is wrong on so many levels. If this is a sign of things to come, this nation is going to be traveling down some dark roads in the future.

 

[c33m0n3y]

"Alex, i'll take:

For $1,000

 

[Spartan1771]

LOL!!!

 

[Machodoc]

I am an American. That means that I believe that I live in a free society that is governed by laws, and that all laws in my country grow out of the Constitution of the United States.

I respect law enforcement, and I expect law enforcement to respect me equally. As an American, I refuse to fear law enforcement. To do so makes me a slave to officials of my government who are wielding power unnecessarily, and that behavior is contrary to maintaining a free America.

I am mindful that law enforcement officers, in the routine fulfillment of their duty, are sometimes met by persons who pose a threat to them. Because of that, I will not make sudden or violent gestures toward a LEO, raise my voice, or otherwise behave in a manner that can be taken as aggressive. Instead, I will smile, speak casually and softly, and otherwise demonstrate that I am not a threat to them, nor do I expect them to be a threat to me.

But, in the course of all these things, I will politely explain that I wish to exercise my rights against such things as unlawful search and seizure. I will do so respectfully ... perhaps even apologetically, but I will do so because I am an American.

 

[Spartan1771]

I am an American. That means that I believe that I live in a free society that is governed by laws, and that all laws in my country grow out of the Constitution of the United States.

I respect law enforcement, and I expect law enforcement to respect me equally. As an American, I refuse to fear law enforcement. To do so makes me a slave to officials of my government who are wielding power unnecessarily, and that behavior is contrary to maintaining a free America.

I am mindful that law enforcement officers, in the routine fulfillment of their duty, are sometimes met with persons who pose a threat to them. Because of that, I will not make sudden or violent gestures toward a LEO, raise my voice, or otherwise behave in a manner that can be taken as aggressive. Instead, I will smile, speak casually and softly, and otherwise demonstrate that I am not a threat to them, nor do I expect them to be a threat to me.

But, in the course of all these things, I will politely explain that I wish to exercise my rights against such things as unlawful search and seizure. I will do so respectfully ... perhaps even apologetically, but I will do so because I am an American.

VERY well said.

 

[Docster]

"Alex, i'll take:

For $1,000

No disrespect intended, but that's funny!

 

[cougar70]

When things like this happen, one thing that has been forgotten is that the FBI, DHS, state & local police, politicians, etc. are our workers. As government workers at whatever level, they are supposed to work for the citizens of the United States of America.

I find it appalling and scary just how out of control various aspects of the government have become.

“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” Thomas Jefferson

I recently stumbled upon this quote and it seems way too appropriate during the turmoils of today.

 

[fleaman64]

Abolish the DHS and repeal the "Patriot Act". Yet, no one has the balls in Congress to do so...

Thanks Bush 43!

 

[llkoolkeg]

I am an American. That means that I believe that I live in a free society that is governed by laws, and that all laws in my country grow out of the Constitution of the United States.

I respect law enforcement, and I expect law enforcement to respect me equally. As an American, I refuse to fear law enforcement. To do so makes me a slave to officials of my government who are wielding power unnecessarily, and that behavior is contrary to maintaining a free America.

I am mindful that law enforcement officers, in the routine fulfillment of their duty, are sometimes met by persons who pose a threat to them. Because of that, I will not make sudden or violent gestures toward a LEO, raise my voice, or otherwise behave in a manner that can be taken as aggressive. Instead, I will smile, speak casually and softly, and otherwise demonstrate that I am not a threat to them, nor do I expect them to be a threat to me.

But, in the course of all these things, I will politely explain that I wish to exercise my rights against such things as unlawful search and seizure. I will do so respectfully ... perhaps even apologetically, but I will do so because I am an American.

Hypothetically speaking, then, chances are good you'll get out of it unscathed...but if you insist on speaking with police who are obviously not there to return your stolen bicycle or for some other legitimate example of "serving and protecting", you may ultimately earn the opportunity to induce facepalm in your defense lawyer and your firearms collection will assuredly NOT enjoy the benefit of the doubt(IMHO).