C&R's beware

[EL1227]

KEENE: U.S. agencies join war against gun owners

Perhaps an even more creative bureaucrat came up with the idea that resulted in the visit of two Homeland Security agents to the Fredericksburg, Va., home of Kristopher Gasior on March 8. Mr. Gasior is a gun collector, author and expert on Polish-made firearms. Mr. Gasior owns a collection that includes a rare military rifle made by the Polish government in 1938, was captured by invading German forces the next year, and brought to the United States by a GI who took it from a German in the final days of the war.

The agents who came to his door didn’t have a warrant, but Mr. Gasior’s wife invited them in, and when her husband came into the room, they asked if he had the rifle. When he said yes and showed it to them, they seized it and gave him a receipt after informing him that they were taking it on behalf of the Polish government. They claimed it was a “one-of-a-kind rifle” that had been looted from the Polish government during the war.

Collectors and veterans in this country are worried that owners of war trophies could be treated as Mr. Gasior was, and in the days since the incident, the National Rifle Association museum has received numerous calls from collectors worried that the Department of Homeland Security might use this newly declared power to go after firearms in their collections.

Comments ...

 

[Arcamm]

Is DHS going to be our Gestapo?

 

[Machodoc]

I have mixed feelings about this. There were a lot of things looted--illegally--during wartime, and there's a strong precedent for having them returned to the government of the country of origin, or the individuals from whom they were taken.

I sincerely do not like that H.S. was used to enforce this, or that the firearm was confiscated without what one would expect to be normal due process, but I'm not entirely against the principle of property obtained illegally, and especially that of historic importance to a country that was overrun by a hostile nation (Germany ... not the U.S.), being repatriated. I just find the way that this was apparently done to be abhorrent.

 

[jessebogan]

Yes, the DHS is going to be (is) the gestapo. The agency clearly exists only to protect the ruling class from the rest of us. Have you ever looked at the visible external protections on Federal buildings? Have they built any thing like that to protect your family? Have you heard about their ammunition buys? The MRAP purchases? What else could they be?? They sure as hell haven't secured the border yet You know, ACTUAL security for the heimat... er Homeland...

 

[reverendbeer]

The agents who came to his door didn’t have a warrant [...] they seized it...

Uber lawsuit in the making...

 

[tinydata]

I have mixed feelings about this. There were a lot of things looted--illegally--during wartime, and there's a strong precedent for having them returned to the government of the country of origin, or the individuals from whom they were taken.

I sincerely do not like that H.S. was used to enforce this, or that the firearm was confiscated without what one would expect to be normal due process, but I'm not entirely against the principle of property obtained illegally, and especially that of historic importance to a country that was overrun by a hostile nation (Germany ... not the U.S.), being repatriated. I just find the way that this was apparently done to be abhorrent.

Still, you're depriving a man of his property. If the Polish government really wanted the rifle back, they should have paid the man his asking price for it.

 

[redsandman6]

is the some kind of statute of limitations on this kind of thing?

 

[Machodoc]

Tinydata - as someone else mentioned, this will end up in the courts. And as I mentioned, "I sincerely do not like that H.S. was used to enforce this, or that the firearm was confiscated without what one would expect to be normal due process ..."

That said, I suspect that this is the firearm in question: wz. 38M Maroszek

 

[Docster]

KEENE: U.S. agencies join war against gun owners



Comments ...

A few lessons here;

First, don't INVITE Federal agents into your house--they are not there for a friendly visit

Second, don't give them anything without a warrant

These concepts have been told to us over and over again. Force the agents to do things LEGALLY otherwise you're screwing yourself and making their job easier. Now the gun owner gets to hire a lawyer to either get his valuable gun back or recieve compensation for it.

Now having said that, I am disturbed that DHS is being sent to act as agents for foreign gov'ts to reclaim lost or looted war items. To just 'take it' is wrong on so many levels, but as a liberal progressive gov't. out to please everyone, our government doesn't have the courage to stand up and back the rights of it's citizens first and foremost.

If there is a question of looted war treasures then there is an established protocol for identifying it, determining legal ownership and adjudicating compensation. This protocol has been around since about 1946

Apparently our government stands for the rights of people, as long as it's not our own people.

 

[AC MkIII]

I have mixed feelings about this. There were a lot of things looted--illegally--during wartime, and there's a strong precedent for having them returned to the government of the country of origin, or the individuals from whom they were taken.

I sincerely do not like that H.S. was used to enforce this, or that the firearm was confiscated without what one would expect to be normal due process, but I'm not entirely against the principle of property obtained illegally, and especially that of historic importance to a country that was overrun by a hostile nation (Germany ... not the U.S.), being repatriated. I just find the way that this was apparently done to be abhorrent.

Your feelings shouldn't be mixed. There are 2 separate issues here.
I have slways felt that the DHS is just a federal police force. This kind of behavior proves it.
Both established parties have let the people down with our rights. Next thing we will here from our gubmit is "let them eat cake."

 

[rico903]

Sounds like any bring back could be considered looted from the gov't., except Germany. Take heed He should have asked them to leave immediately. Let the Polish govt take the case to court if they wanted it back. We shouldn't be doing anyones dirty work for them.

 

[llkoolkeg]

WTF...if they were truly interested in righting the private property wrongs of WWII, they'd pay Switzerland a little visit. Is the DHS allowed to sidestep Posse Comitatus like their subordinate U.S. Coast Guard or do special conditions need to be met? I don't like the idea of them using their drones, MRAPs and Big Ear on American gun owners.

 

[tsmith1499]

My question is this. Did they go to everyone that has one of these in the US and take it back. According to the article that Machodoc sighted there's one in Fairfax at the Nat'l. Firearms Museum. That's the first thing I would want to know!! Did they go after ALL of them? Especially since it states that Poland already has one in their museum.

 

[Machodoc]

My question is this. Did they go to everyone that has one of these in the US and take it back. According to the article that Machodoc sighted there's one in Fairfax at the Nat'l. Firearms Museum. That's the first thing I would want to know!! Did they go after ALL of them? Especially since it states that Poland already has one in their museum.

I'm not 100% certain that's the firearm in question, but I believe it is. There may be more info about this story that we don't know (there usually is), such as, perhaps, the Polish government knowing which serial number was in Fredericksburg, and maybe having info on what happened to that. Again, that's just speculation on my part.

In any case, rather than going to a man's house and confiscating his property, as was done in all the countries that were used as examples of why the U.S. was far superior, why couldn't they have summoned him to court in order to show that he was legally entitled to own the firearm ... or not.

We used to pride ourselves on being a free nation of laws and ideas, distinctly different from those whose governments were all about force. What the hell happened?

 

[mawkie]

I'm wondering where this all ends. Will half of the exhibits in the Smithsonian end up being sent back to their countries of origin? Just when you think it couldn't get any crazier to be a gun collector.

 

[Boom Boom]

So when do WWII vets and their kin start getting door knocks about war bring-backs?

 

[Sev89]

So when do WWII vets and their kin start getting door knocks about war bring-backs?

They can pound sand for all I care. What's mine is MINE!

 

[7's]

They can pound sand for all I care. What's mine is MINE!

+1! Finders keepers! They can have it back if they pay for it but I only saved it from being thrown in the trash most times anyway............

 

[Lou45]

Is DHS going to be our Gestapo?

No, jus' the "Jackboots" of the United States in the near future.

Yes, the DHS is going to be (is) the gestapo. The agency clearly exists only to protect the ruling class from the rest of us. Have you ever looked at the visible external protections on Federal buildings? Have they built any thing like that to protect your family? Have you heard about their ammunition buys? The MRAP purchases? What else could they be?? They sure as hell haven't secured the border yet You know, ACTUAL security for the heimat... er Homeland...

Der Fatherland.

 

[somd_mustangs]

After reading the article, there was a super -scary quote from the agent

"The agent replied that as far as the U.S. government is concerned, anything brought over the border at any time was within Department of Homeland Security jurisdiction and could be seized."

Are you kidding me? Maybe this is taken out of context and not an official policy (just the guy spouting off?) but it surely seems all-encompassing, regardless of "looted" guns.

And it sounds like this gun was captured by the German soldiers, not looted from some museum or private home by the special "looting squads." And was it REALLY the Polish government that requested it, and will it actually be returned to them? or destroyed?