C&R's beware

[rob-cubed]

What rare rifle? Oh, that old thing... no, I traded it a long time ago...

I don't condone lying to authorities, but let's face it... you don't get visits from DHS or BATFE just so they can admire your stuff.

Politicians and rust...

 

[somd_mustangs]

Mr Gasior had this rifle posted on his website (description included) which is what brought the unwanted attention in the first place. So no wiggle room there about not having it.

I bought one of my Steyr Hahn 1912's from him and he's a good guy.

 

[Mike OTDP]

VERY large lawsuit. Preferably with an injunction against DHS doing this again.

And a Congressional investigation.

 

[Spartan1771]

Mr Gasior had this rifle posted on his website (description included) which is what brought the unwanted attention in the first place. So no wiggle room there about not having it..

This is EXACTLY why I deleted all the gun photos I had posted on various websites. No one needs to know what I have other then me and my close friends. No need to advertise to the government: "HERE IS WHAT I HAVE! COME AND GET IT!"

As was mentioned earlier, if law enforcement comes to your door, ask them what they want. If it is in reference to you or your property, ask them to see their warrant. If they don't have a warrant, get their names, ID numbers, agency and tell them to tell their story walking.

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

I'll start digging plots now for invaders.

 

[MotoJ]

This is very scary if it's all true as reported. As a sentence in the article says the agents state anything that comes across the borders at any time is fair game to them (paraphrasing). That would include any foreign made firearm of any type, yes? They can say just about anything to seize them at that point.

Anyway, it seems weird the DHS would be involved. The FBI typically recovers Nazi stolen art and other plunder. Seems like them or the Justice Dept would have more investigative resources to track something like stolen weapons.

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/

Evidently Mr. K is a C&R dealer. Maybe an email to him would reveal the whole story.

EDIT: sent email to Mr. K asking for details. Will report.

 

[Machodoc]

I wonder if the NRA is considering taking this on as a precedent-setting legal case? And, if so, is there a way that donations could be made that are earmarked just for that?

 

[RwWilly]

Janet Napolitano, Her father was of Italian descent and her mother had German and Austrian ancestry.
Maybe a little axis quilt that allowed this issue to become a national priority?

 

[MotoJ]

I sent an email to Mr. Gaspior asking for confirmation of this story, and it appears to all be accurate, with exception of number of agents:



Sir,

The story is quite accurate, except for the fact that there were four DHS agents, and not two..... I was told by DHS: "Legally, there is no such a thing as a war trophy". The Polish government claims that the rifle was issued to Polish military in 1939, and as such remains the property of Polish government! It would be the first time that the foreign government is reclaiming the rifle, which was lost at the battlefield!

Best regards,

Kristopher Gasior
www,CollectibleFirearms.com
-----Original Message-----
From:
To: kgasior <kgasior@aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 7:32 pm
Subject: Verification of story in the Washington Times

Hello Mr. Gasior,

As a fellow vintage firearms collector, I wondered if you could verify a story reported in the Washington Times, regarding
Deparment of Homeland Security agents visiting your home and confiscating a Polish rifle. This story came to my attention in the C&R forum of the MD Shooters website.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=113253

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/27/us-agencies-join-war-against-gun-owners/

Is this an accurate reportage of events that transpired?

I, and many other collectors, are naturally concerned, and would like to know any details you would care to share with us.

Regards,

Baltimore, MD

I'll post any more correspondence I have with him. I asked if he received any paperwork or compensation.....

 

[mawkie]

Thanks for posting the communication with Kris. He's been a part of the C&R dealer network here in the Mid Atlantic for decades and I'm sorry to see this happen to him.
I find it curious that the Obama administration claims that there's no such thing as a legal war trophy when the Roosevelt administration had procedures in place for authorizing the legal return of said items by members of the US military (aka "capture papers").
Perhaps we'll see the British demand the return of Brown Bess muskets taken from British armories or from fallen/captured British soldiers on Revolutionary War battlefields. Or will the Germans demand the return of all the RC capture rifles and pistols. Hell, the Russians are still storing captured German K43s!
Open the floodgates, here come the Japanese, Germans, Italians, British, French, everyone we ever fought against and defeated, asking for their "property" back. Only under the rabidly anti-gun Obama administration could this nightmare come to fruition.
I've learned one thing, I won't be sharing any acquisitions that might be "illegal war booty" from this point on.

 

[Spartan1771]

Its amazing to me the kind of nonsense the Government is wasting money on these days.

Well now that I think about it, our economy is strong, unemployment is down, gas prices are great and the world is at peace, so I guess they just don't have anything else to do these days.

 

[Rotmistrz]

I think one issue needs to be clarified: according to the wartime (WWII) US Army and Navy Regulations, no firearm, which was a property of an Allied Nation, could ever become a "war trophy". So, have no fear. All those German, Japanese and Italian war souvenirs are quite safe from customs seizure, as long as they were sent to the US with proper "War Trophy Certificates" endorsed by the G.I.'s Commanding Officer, and thus lawfully by-passing the US Customs. A Polish rifle, on the other hand, is quite another story, which shows that it pays to differentiate a friend from foe. I guess Mr. Gasior learned, the hard way, that one cannot sell objects, (be it coins, paintings or valuable firearms), which were looted by the Nazis during the last world war and are now being re-claimed by the rightful owners, (in this case, the Polish Army), in accordance with the US laws and with the help of the federal goverment.
I am also glad that Mrs. Gasior did the right thing and let the federal agents in. (Getting a search warrant, on these facts, would be a breeze, by the way). This prevented her husband from being subject to the criminal charge of an obstruction of justice and from a strong chance of having his FFL license revoked, which would greatly impact his livelihood. Now Mr. Gasior can have his day in court, although I seriously doubt he will prevail in his claim to the rifle, given all of the above reasons. In fact, he should be ashamed to even try. Those who hold Polish arms, even as temporary custodians, should have more honor.
So much for yet another Obama conspiracy! NRA should rest easy and concentrate on making our kids safe at school.

 

[Docster]

As was previously posted, the smart move would be to not advertise the fact that they have guns, or a specific rare gun, or lots of guns. It's wise to keep under the radar especially in these times. What others know can hurt you.

 

[mvee]

I know a few Polish mausers were brought into this country after the war by emigrating Polish soldiers from England. I wonder if they would claim these as well.

There are also a few rare Polish Mauser and Polish Mauser-mosin hybrids at the Army museum in Aberdeen. I wonder if these are going to be returned as well.

 

[ma_deuce]

No matter the validity of the Polish gov'ts claim, I can't see the legal basis for their seizing the gun without a court order.

 

[Spartan1771]

I am also glad that Mrs. Gasior did the right thing and let the federal agents in. (Getting a search warrant, on these facts, would be a breeze, by the way). This prevented her husband from being subject to the criminal charge of an obstruction of justice and from a strong chance of having his FFL license revoked, which would greatly impact his livelihood.

Telling a Police Officer / Federal Agent to get a warrant in order to search your property can not be construed as obstructing justice. The Fourth Amendment guarantees that right. If he were to hide the rifle or deny having it, that could be grounds for obstruction charges.

I don't care who you are or what the situation is, if a Law Enforcement Officer asks you to search your property, it is because he doesn't have probable cause. With our PC, he needs your consent. Don't give it to them. Make them do their job and take their set of facts and circumstances to a judge in the form of an application for a search warrant. If the judge grants them the warrant, that's good for them. If they don't, well that's good for you. You won't get charged for exercising your rights.

 

[Rotmistrz]

No matter the validity of the Polish gov'ts claim, I can't see the legal basis for their seizing the gun without a court order.

Here you go: 19 USC Sec. 1497(a)(1) "[a]ny article which is not included in the declaration and entry as made or transmitted; and mentioned before examination of the baggage begins ...shall be subject to forfeiture by the United States".

 

[Spartan1771]

Although that may give them authority to seize the specific item, it does not supersede their right to request a search warrant.

Rotmistrz, are you a C&R holder?

 

[Mooseman]

Is this rifle going to be issued to a soldier in the Polish Army?

 

[Rotmistrz]

Is this rifle going to be issued to a soldier in the Polish Army?

I imagine it will be displayed in a museum, which is under a jurisdiction of the Polish Army. There are two of them in Poland, in Bydgoszcz and Warsaw.