ATF shut down SD Tactical sales of solvent traps

[iH8DemLibz]

Why not get giddy if you've paid the stamp fee? It's completely legal to build one at that point, no?

If you tell them it's for a suppressor, and you write Suppressor Tube and Caps on your drawing, do they have a Suppressor/Class III manufacturing license?

Best to call your drawing: Muffler Bearing Removal Tool.

Even then it may not be totally legal. Same as getting someone else to finish/machine an 80% lower. Not allowed by law. The end user has to be the manufacturer.

IANASML

 

[Biggfoot44]

The Oil Filter Adapters, or the previous adapter of the week might approach thumbing your nose and rubbing your junk, since they involved mfg of parts specifically to ( allegedly do somthing ). But common ordinary generic plumbing and auto parts that have gazillion normal uses ? Any distinction between this guy and every hardware, home improvement, farm supply , plumbing, auto parts, and marine supply, etc store or distributor in the country is artificial, arbitrary, and capricous.

 

[bobbo]

The problem is he is an Nfa manufacturer law are different for that reason. He can sell under a different lnc with out a problem.

 

[bobbo]

Check out http://www.preppersdiscount.com/

 

[good guy 176]

BATFE is workless most days. Tried to verify a FFL with them yesterday and twice got the same message that they were open but to call back or leave a message.

Can't verify a FFL03 on their EZ Check online system and had two of their c..ts pull an unannounced inspection of my C&R license years ago...after I'd used it exactly one time. Dropped that license in 2011 and cut off any further interruptions from them.

Then there was the wrist slaps they got a few years ago for going into hoods and asking your neighbors if you were aware of their neighbor buying guns over at the local show that day.

Yeah, they are wad of overpaid MOFOs!

Lew--Ranger63

 

[bobbo]

You can't blame the ATF for failed government policy's and fear of gun owners.

 

[Alphabrew]

If you tell them it's for a suppressor, and you write Suppressor Tube and Caps on your drawing, do they have a Suppressor/Class III manufacturing license?

Best to call your drawing: Muffler Bearing Removal Tool.

Even then it may not be totally legal. Same as getting someone else to finish/machine an 80% lower. Not allowed by law. The end user has to be the manufacturer.

IANASML

Muffler bearings are a real pain to remove without the tool

 

[outrider58]

Muffler bearings are a real pain to remove without the tool

I read on the interwebz there is no such of a thing as a muffler bearing...

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Muffler bearings are a real pain to remove without the tool

One of the very few Seinfeld shows I happened to watch.

Being that I like all things mechanical, it stuck in my head.

And the mechanically ignorant are just as much at risk today as they were back then.

 

[Art3]

I don't know what the owner of this company is complaining about.

He walked RIGHT up the legal line. And began rubbing his junk all over it. Taunting the ATF. In fact, daring the ATF to do something about it. Now he's shocked that the ATF did something about it.

These parts are no different than the folks who sell/were selling Solvent Trap adapters. AKA: Oil Filter adapters. A $9.99 Solvent Trap Adapter + a $4.99 Oil Filter = Suppressor in the eyes of the ATF.

While I agree that a bunch of parts does not constitute a completed suppressor, having the parts allows one to build a completed suppressor. An auto-sear is not a machine gun. But the ATF considers possessing an auto sear as being in possession of a machine gun.

Looking forward to the possible passing of the HPA. Then all this suppressor and tax stamp nonsense can be put to bed. Then we can all run out and buy mag-lites and freeze plugs and tinker in our basements untill the cows come home.

I remember looking at those 'solvent traps' and thinking that they were just that... traps. Kind of expecting somebody from BATFE to be waiting just outside the door to pick up anybody who bought one. The solvent trap idea seemed pretty lame to me. And while the parts themselves are totally legal, doesn't intent enter into the equation somewhere? Was there ever anybody who intended to use those parts to trap gun cleaning solvents?

I tend to agree...this stuff is running right up to a line nobody wants to cross. I guess if no one ever pushed the limits, the limits would keep creeping in...but I don't want to be the test case. I had the same thought about the solvent traps...and the Sig braces? I saw one at a show before I had heard of them. I managed to figure it out on my own, and concluded, "that is a really clever and ballsey way to make an 'sbr'...and I ain't going near it!"

 

[Art3]

I read on the interwebz there is no such of a thing as a muffler bearing...

Probably not so much on modern cars. I had an older one that seemed to have its muffler bearing down on the road every other week.

 

[fabsroman]

I remember looking at those 'solvent traps' and thinking that they were just that... traps. Kind of expecting somebody from BATFE to be waiting just outside the door to pick up anybody who bought one. The solvent trap idea seemed pretty lame to me. And while the parts themselves are totally legal, doesn't intent enter into the equation somewhere? Was there ever anybody who intended to use those parts to trap gun cleaning solvents?

So, why isn't it legal to buy those parts once I have my Form 1 in hand. I can buy a barrel under 16" in length once I have my Form 1 in hand for an SBR. I've been waiting to buy the SD Tactical parts once I received my Form 1 for the suppressors. That's fine. The BATFE should release a statement that possession of a solvent trap is the equivalent of possessing a suppressor. If you don't have a Form 1 to build a suppressor, you better not have a solvent trap on hand. That, I am fine with.

However, shutting down the supplier is an entirely different thing. The sellers of short barrels are allowed to sell them to anybody that orders them. A person that order a short barrel is not required to show the seller a copy of the Form 1. Why are the rules so much different for a suppressor/solvent trap?

 

[fabsroman]

Check out http://www.preppersdiscount.com/

Preppers has had that "advisement" up for quite a while now. Question is, are they actually shipping after the 45 day wait? If so, what the heck is the 45 day wait for?

 

[outrider58]

So, why isn't it legal to buy those parts once I have my Form 1 in hand. I can buy a barrel under 16" in length once I have my Form 1 in hand for an SBR. I've been waiting to buy the SD Tactical parts once I received my Form 1 for the suppressors. That's fine. The BATFE should release a statement that possession of a solvent trap is the equivalent of possessing a suppressor. If you don't have a Form 1 to build a suppressor, you better not have a solvent trap on hand. That, I am fine with.

However, shutting down the supplier is an entirely different thing. The sellers of short barrels are allowed to sell them to anybody that orders them. A person that order a short barrel is not required to show the seller a copy of the Form 1. Why are the rules so much different for a suppressor/solvent trap?

Agreed.
You can own a center fire barrel shorter than 16" without a form 1 or 4. You'd better have the makings of a pistol on hand though.

 

[Mr. Ed]

So, why isn't it legal to buy those parts once I have my Form 1 in hand. I can buy a barrel under 16" in length once I have my Form 1 in hand for an SBR. I've been waiting to buy the SD Tactical parts once I received my Form 1 for the suppressors. That's fine. The BATFE should release a statement that possession of a solvent trap is the equivalent of possessing a suppressor. If you don't have a Form 1 to build a suppressor, you better not have a solvent trap on hand. That, I am fine with.

However, shutting down the supplier is an entirely different thing. The sellers of short barrels are allowed to sell them to anybody that orders them. A person that order a short barrel is not required to show the seller a copy of the Form 1. Why are the rules so much different for a suppressor/solvent trap?

I didn't say that I agreed with BATFE's action. I don't, for many of the reasons listed by you and others. I'm not a lawyer and don't have the benefit of years of legal experience. I'm also not willing to be the test case. I'm just a poor dumb schmuck trying to navigate the maze of poorly written and inconsistently enforced laws to try to stay out of trouble. My point was that to me, given the totality of the circumstances (read selling parts consistent with being able to assemble a suppressor by a guy who also sells suppressors), with the nudge and a wink that these parts were legal, admitting to a customer that the parts could be used to make a suppressor (which I witnessed at a gun show) that it seemed either too good to be true, or it was some sort of a test. I tried to imagine using the parts as a real solvent trap to clean my guns, and just couldn't see that they would offer any benefit or improvement to how I've been doing it for 60 years.

Like you and others, I have a problem with the whole pre-emptive thing, where we can't have something that 'might' be turned into something else. Like the thread adapter from 1/2x28 to 3/4x16 that fits an oil filter. I can't think of any other use for that part, but until it's actually used to connect otherwise legal items, it's nothing more than a machined piece of metal, same as this guys stuff. This is that 'slippery slope' that gets tossed about when folks are defending encroachments on our rights. What's even more ridiculous is that, if we ignore the tax stamp/revenue part of the equation, suppressors just aren't used in illegal ways and they aren't a threat to anybody's safety. I have never heard of anybody on the street using one to pop a cap in his homeboy's ass or rob a 7-11.

 

[ToolAA]

The head of the company maintenance department decided to place an order for some fuel filter components this morning. Seems like we are never keeping up with preventative maintenance around here and I'm really tired of our expensive machinery breaking down all the time. Very frustrating.

The only problem is that our machines use some non-standard threads so we'll have to get some threaded adaptors too. Good thing those are readily available.

Quick question for you guys that are in the maintenance department. Our machines vibrate a lot and after running for a while they get real hot too? Is stainless steel better than aluminum?

Also I like our equipment to look new so should we paint the filters with a high quality durakote paint so everything matches?


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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gre24ene]

There are still places to buy tubes and internals, if you know where to look.

 

[Pinecone]

And while the parts themselves are totally legal, doesn't intent enter into the equation somewhere? Was there ever anybody who intended to use those parts to trap gun cleaning solvents?

So just because you have male parts, you should be prosecuted because you COULD rape someone?

 

[outrider58]

So just because you have male parts, you should be prosecuted because you COULD rape someone?

Ask a feminist.

 

[Engine4]

A couple solvent trap sellers were at Gettysburg today.