ATF shut down SD Tactical sales of solvent traps

[Mark75H]

I may stop by my machinist's tomorrow ... how much can a 10' length of titanium tube possibly cost?

Like a yacht, if you have to ask, you can't afford it

 

[Doitsouthstyle]

May be surprised compared to a "wholesaler" price because the more you buy the less per unit it cost.

 

[ironpony]

Like a yacht, if you have to ask, you can't afford it

Right, but I do custom boat work for a living so I might be able to afford a piece after I send out some invoices

 

[Mark75H]

Right, but I do custom boat work for a living so I might be able to afford a piece after I send out some invoices

You should check the price so you know how much to invoice

 

[fabsroman]

Here is an article that discusses the subject. Looks like I have an excuse to buy an expensive lathe now and then take classes to learn how to use it. CnC machine and classes will be next.

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2015/04/solvent-traps-and-gun-trusts-making-a-suppressor.html

It appears the BATFE's position is that the mere possession of suppressor parts is the equivalent of possessing a suppressor. Tomorrow morning, I have to go and take all the freeze plugs out of my cars, truck, and SUV and scrap them. Question is, what do I use to replace them? Good thing I returned that 10" long, 2" diameter piece of black pipe yesterday morning at Home Depot. Lots of people going to be arrested at Home Depot as they buy plumbing supplies.

Nothing quite like having 5 Form 1 applications in process and this BS coming down the pike.

The Hearing Protection Act cannot get passed soon enough. Thing is, I doubt it is getting through. Time will tell.

Wonder if the NRA is going to get involved in this.

 

[fabsroman]

FYI - the WIX fuel filter will work as a substitute tube.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000CSI...TF8&colid=1XG6A0OZ2SJ4A&coliid=I1FC81YCB18NZO

Somewhat big for a pistol or rimfire suppressor, but a decent size for a rifle. Wonder what other inline fuel filters are out there. Granted, if you have one of these filters for your vehicle, and you don't have a Form 1 or Form 4, you might be in some serious legal trouble.

As I have been saying for years now, there isn't a single one of us, except maybe a newborn baby, that is not a criminal. They just have not caught all of us, and when I say ALL of us, I mean everybody in the US, not just the firearms owners.

There firearm laws, and the related interpretations, are really starting to hurt my head.

 

[wolfwood]

From their Facebook page;

As of today the ATF shut down our business of selling solvent traps. This is 99% of our income. They have put 3 Veterans, my wife and son out of work. They said I can't sell freeze plugs. NAPA can't even sell them to us because they are a suppressor part. They said all I can sell is complete suppressor's. That is what we do for now until I get some legal help to fight these vauge laws or opinions. The issue is NFA items. He said tubes and freeze plugs were suppressor parts. Would that mean if you have a shotgun and a hacksaw you have a sawed off shotgun? If you own a AR isn't that a potential SBR?

My plea for help is to make this Viral to the Trump admin, the Trump family and such. I have been put in the street over mindless opinions. I had talked to the ATF in the past and they had no issues. Today they shut us down.

Where are you guys located.

 

[fabsroman]

Where are you guys located.

SD Tactical is located in Menomonie, WI. I think the majority of people on this chatboard are located in Maryland.

 

[wolfwood]

I don't understand the issue exactly. Is this like the sig sauer baffle which the atf thinks is a suppressor or is this more like the parts they sell are readily convertible into a suppressor.

 

[janklow]

I don't know what the owner of this company is complaining about.

i was mainly curious how he wound up in the street so quickly

 

[ToolAA]

You've got to be freaking kidding me. I have a Form 1 pending and was planning on using their products. FU BATFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im in the same boat. I've got two pending.

I guess im going to have to DIY

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hawkeye]

I don't know what the owner of this company is complaining about.

Being shut down for selling things that are completely and totally legal, based on the supposition that his customers *MIGHT* commit a crime with them.

He walked RIGHT up the legal line. And began rubbing his junk all over it. Taunting the ATF. In fact, daring the ATF to do something about it. Now he's shocked that the ATF did something about it.

Doesn't matter. He didn't commit a crime.

While I agree that a bunch of parts does not constitute a completed suppressor, having the parts allows one to build a completed suppressor.

Which, again (having the parts) is not a crime. There are other legal purposes for all of the parts, so having them, un-drilled, is not a crime.

I don't understand the issue exactly. Is this like the sig sauer baffle which the atf thinks is a suppressor or is this more like the parts they sell are readily convertible into a suppressor.

This is more like they sell you a threaded tube and a bunch of car parts and you can later make a suppressor with those parts.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

i was mainly curious how he wound up in the street so quickly

I think he's trying to get his customers to jump on their horses, blow bugle calls, and charge in to buy completed suppressors.

As to being on the street, pretty sure he's just fine and not living in a cardboard box in a back alley somewhere.

He bought freeze plugs, marked them up, and sold them as suppressor parts.

Pretty sweet racket.

 

[Mr. Ed]

I remember looking at those 'solvent traps' and thinking that they were just that... traps. Kind of expecting somebody from BATFE to be waiting just outside the door to pick up anybody who bought one. The solvent trap idea seemed pretty lame to me. And while the parts themselves are totally legal, doesn't intent enter into the equation somewhere? Was there ever anybody who intended to use those parts to trap gun cleaning solvents?

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I remember looking at those 'solvent traps' and thinking that they were just that... traps. Kind of expecting somebody from BATFE to be waiting just outside the door to pick up anybody who bought one. The solvent trap idea seemed pretty lame to me. And while the parts themselves are totally legal, doesn't intent enter into the equation somewhere? Was there ever anybody who intended to use those parts to trap gun cleaning solvents?

Bu, bu, but there just a pile of legal parts.

Those twelve freeze plugs could be use to rebuild the two engines you don't own.

As to the rest of your post, yes, Constructive Intent could be used if the ATF chose to do so.

Stick a rifle with a threaded muzzle in a bag. Along with a "Solvent Trap Adapter" and a "Solvent Trap" (Oil Filter). Then explain to the police that it's not a suppressor system if stopped and searched.

Good luck with that.

 

[Hawkeye]

And while the parts themselves are totally legal, doesn't intent enter into the equation somewhere?

It shouldn't, because prosecuting people on a crime that they haven't committed, but *might* at some point in the future is incredibly stupid and incredibly dangerous. But it does, thus the whole "constructive intent" thing, which ATF has already ruled on in the past, and their ruling was that if you have a pile of parts that serves no other legal purpose than to make an NFA item then you have made an NFA item. I.E. if you own all of the parts for an AR-15 but the barrel is only 10" long, then you have an SBR even if you never assemble the parts. But, if you have an AR-15 rifle and an AR15 pistol which has a 10" barrel, that's fine, because possessing the 10" barrel for use on your pistol is a legal purpose.

The bare fact of the matter is that there are legal purposes, other than making a suppressor, for all of these parts. The freeze plugs are engine parts you can buy at Napa. The tube is for a flashlight, etc. There is ZERO legal reason to do what ATF did, unless they're changing their standard for the whole thing which puts them in a position of arguing that a Maglite is illegal.

Was there ever anybody who intended to use those parts to trap gun cleaning solvents?

Doesn't matter.

 

[dwsjr]

I like how some are so quick to condemn this company for what they were doing. If what he says is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't, they contacted and cleared everything with the ATF. Then after their business became successful the ATF turned around and said," Whoa whoa whoa, you can't do that..." I hope they sue and win for an obscene amount of damages if possible. The older I get the more I believe in gross over reach and incompetency of the ATF and all other agencies as well.

 

[Z_Man]

this is one of the companies that stands to gain the most if the hearing protection act passes. the $90 dollar titanium tubes would be able to retail for $200 as people rush to build legal suppressors, all the while their production costs would go down as quantity goes up. i also wonder if they only sold tubes if they would have had this problem. i also wonder if they could still sell the parts if they required that their customers sent a copy of an approved form 1.

 

[outrider58]

I'd like to see this get ironed out. There's no reason a company shouldn't be allowed to sell suppressor parts to anyone holding a stamp for a home-made suppressor. I guess the question is, where does enforcement come in to play?

 

[Z_Man]

I like how some are so quick to condemn this company for what they were doing. If what he says is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't, they contacted and cleared everything with the ATF. Then after their business became successful the ATF turned around and said," Whoa whoa whoa, you can't do that..." I hope they sue and win for an obscene amount of damages if possible. The older I get the more I believe in gross over reach and incompetency of the ATF and all other agencies as well.

well when you have dozens of federal agencies that need to show that they do something, this is what you get. this is what happens when there are so many law enforcement/interpretation agencies. if one wants to waste an hour or 4, look up just how many federal agencies and how many office of's are in each agency. mind boggling, and its a surprise that the federal government accomplishes anything.