ATF shut down SD Tactical sales of solvent traps

[clandestine]

Read it wrong.

 

[Hawkeye]

I'd like to see this get ironed out. There's no reason a company shouldn't be allowed to sell suppressor parts to anyone holding a stamp for a home-made suppressor. I guess the question is, where does enforcement come in to play?

That's just the thing, though:

These aren't suppressor parts. They're flashlight tubes and car parts. If SD Tactical can't sell them to me because they're suppressor parts, then NAPA can't sell me a freeze plug and Home Depot can't sell me a Maglite.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

That's just the thing, though:

These aren't suppressor parts. They're flashlight tubes and car parts. If SD Tactical can't sell them to me because they're suppressor parts, then NAPA can't sell me a freeze plug and Home Depot can't sell me a Maglite.

NAPA sells freeze plugs for an intended purpose. And they will continue to sell them.

Home Depot sells Mag-Lites for an intended purpose. And they will continue to sell them.

There's no intended purpose for buying freeze plugs and flashlight tubes and end caps from the same company that also makes fully completed suppressors.

Oh wait! Yes there is...

 

[j_h_smith]

I like how some are so quick to condemn this company for what they were doing. If what he says is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't, they contacted and cleared everything with the ATF. Then after their business became successful the ATF turned around and said," Whoa whoa whoa, you can't do that..." I hope they sue and win for an obscene amount of damages if possible. The older I get the more I believe in gross over reach and incompetency of the ATF and all other agencies as well.

I think that once this all comes out in the wash, you're going to find this is going to be just like the Sig Pistol Brace. The BATF was fine with it until they started getting letters asking for clarifications after clarifications. Then they were forced to put an investigative eye on the product.

If people would learn to leave good enough alone, we'd be okay. This company went as far as one could go and were just on this side of being legal. You can say the rules changed on them, but I'd prefer to say that it's like the homeowner complaining about speeders on their neighborhood roads. The police won't do anything about it until they get a complaint.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[Hawkeye]

There's no intended purpose for buying freeze plugs and flashlight tubes and end caps from the same company that also makes fully completed suppressors.

But that does NOT make it illegal to sell these things. Arguing otherwise is arguing that you're going to prosecute thought crime or precrime or whatever you want to call it. It is absolute and total ********, and you can't make a rational argument otherwise.

By your argument: I can go to BCM and buy a 16" bbl AR-15. I can also buy a 10.5" barrel upper from them. Should they be shut down too?

 

[j_h_smith]

But that does NOT make it illegal to sell these things. Arguing otherwise is arguing that you're going to prosecute thought crime or precrime or whatever you want to call it. It is absolute and total ********, and you can't make a rational argument otherwise.

By your argument: I can go to BCM and buy a 16" bbl AR-15. I can also buy a 10.5" barrel upper from them. Should they be shut down too?

Don't give them any ideas!

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I think that once this all comes out in the wash, you're going to find this is going to be just like the Sig Pistol Brace. The BATF was fine with it until they started getting letters asking for clarifications after clarifications. Then they were forced to put an investigative eye on the product.

If people would learn to leave good enough alone, we'd be okay. This company went as far as one could go and were just on this side of being legal. You can say the rules changed on them, but I'd prefer to say that it's like the homeowner complaining about speeders on their neighborhood roads. The police won't do anything about it until they get a complaint.

Just one man's opinion.

That's because gun owners can never STFU and enjoy a good thing.

They have to go around crapping in their own nests.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

But that does NOT make it illegal to sell these things. Arguing otherwise is arguing that you're going to prosecute thought crime or precrime or whatever you want to call it. It is absolute and total ********, and you can't make a rational argument otherwise.

By your argument: I can go to BCM and buy a 16" bbl AR-15. I can also buy a 10.5" barrel upper from them. Should they be shut down too?

If you don't have a second lower, then the ATF can claim Constructive Intent.

They can say you could easily put your 10.5 inch barrel on your fully stocked AR-15 rifle. Thereby manufacturing an SBR without having the proper stamps.

And you might not want to say BS outside the Water Cooler.

 

[j_h_smith]

If you don't have a second lower, then the ATF can claim Constructive Intent.

They can say you could easily put your 10.5 inch barrel on your fully stocked AR-15 rifle. Thereby manufacturing an SBR without having the proper stamps.

And you might not want to say BS outside the Water Cooler.

That's a reason many give for building it into a pistol first then submit your paperwork for a SBR.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

That's a reason many give for building it into a pistol first then submit your paperwork for a SBR.

And that's perfectly fine.

And I'm not saying I agree with the ATF's decision.

I'm saying they felt compelled to act based on how the owner operated his business.

Now the ATF cracking down on the 80% guys out in California was complete BS.

 

[fabsroman]

If you don't have a second lower, then the ATF can claim Constructive Intent.

They can say you could easily put your 10.5 inch barrel on your fully stocked AR-15 rifle. Thereby manufacturing an SBR without having the proper stamps.

And you might not want to say BS outside the Water Cooler.

It is my understanding that if you have a single tax stamp for a SBR AR-15, barrels can be switched on and off of it so long as no barrel is shorter than that put on the stamp? Am I correct about this? Can't I use a 12.5" 5.56 upper on my lower that has a tax stamp for a 10.5" .300 BLK barrel?

I understand the entire constructive intent argument, and I think that is some complete garbage too. There are plenty of people that can unknowingly run afoul of constructive intent. Thing is, the ATF isn't going door to door looking for gun owners that just so happen to own a lot of tools. A plumber that also happens to be a gun owner, who happens to buy some freeze plugs, is looking at a constructive intent issue.

 

[outrider58]

It is my understanding that if you have a single tax stamp for a SBR AR-15, barrels can be switched on and off of it so long as no barrel is shorter than that put on the stamp? Am I correct about this? Can't I use a 12.5" 5.56 upper on my lower that has a tax stamp for a 10.5" .300 BLK barrel?

AFAIK, you can put a shorter barrel on an SBRed lower without breaking any laws as long as you maintain minimum length requirements in accordance with Md law, but yes, multiple uppers are permitted.

IOANAL

 

[iH8DemLibz]

It is my understanding that if you have a single tax stamp for a SBR AR-15, barrels can be switched on and off of it so long as no barrel is shorter than that put on the stamp? Am I correct about this? Can't I use a 12.5" 5.56 upper on my lower that has a tax stamp for a 10.5" .300 BLK barrel?

I understand the entire constructive intent argument, and I think that is some complete garbage too. There are plenty of people that can unknowingly run afoul of constructive intent. Thing is, the ATF isn't going door to door looking for gun owners that just so happen to own a lot of tools. A plumber that also happens to be a gun owner, who happens to buy some freeze plugs, is looking at a constructive intent issue.

I also agree that constructive intent is a BS law. There are many, many, MANY, BS laws on the books.

Just because I don't like them doesn't mean I'm going to ignore them.

And you're right about common household items and the door to door thing. I hope not. Cuzz they'll be dragging a lot of potential Unabombers out of their basements.

 

[ironpony]

If the ATF knew how much oil Chad says to use for lube they would understand the need for this attachment!

So, all we have to go by is a FB post by one company?

 

[Hawkeye]

It is my understanding that if you have a single tax stamp for a SBR AR-15, barrels can be switched on and off of it so long as no barrel is shorter than that put on the stamp?

Barrel length doesn't matter once the firearm is registered as an SBR. You can put any barrel of any caliber or length on it. The caliber and barrel length you put on the Form 1 are only what the firearm is going to have when you make it. You can change it as much as you want after that.

The ATF does "request" that you notify them if you permanently alter the caliber or barrel length from what is listed on the Form 1 (which they define as you no longer having the parts or ability to return the firearm to that configuration) but even they admit that there is no legal requirement to do so.

 

[IDFInfantry]

Won't be long now before the anti-gunners come up with these scenarios:

1. Have a hacksaw in your shed and own a AR? We can't have that you could potentially be in possession of an SBR!

2. Do you own a drill press and a scary looking .22lr rifle that has a barrel shroud? You might just be in possession of a illegal weapon due to the potential to make it suppressed. We'll take that from you!

3. Do you own a vertical grip and an AR pistol? We cannot have you potentially putting that on that AR pistol so it now belongs to us. Actually just give us your whole firearms collection while you are at it because you are in violation of NFA rules.

If you give them an inch they will take a mile. The rules that the B.A.T.F. are coming up with are so ridiculous that people actually think it's justified. Yup, by you simply just shouldering an AR pistol with a Sig Brace you have just somehow magically changed the configuration of that weapon & have thereby re-manufactured it!

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Won't be long now before the anti-gunners come up with these scenarios:

1. Have a hacksaw in your shed and own a AR? We can't have that you could potentially be in possession of an SBR!

2. Do you own a drill press and a scary looking .22lr rifle that has a barrel shroud? You might just be in possession of a illegal weapon due to the potential to make it suppressed. We'll take that from you!

3. Do you own a vertical grip and an AR pistol? We cannot have you potentially putting that on that AR pistol so it now belongs to us. Actually just give us your whole firearms collection while you are at it because you are in violation of NFA rules.

If you give them an inch they will take a mile. The rules that the B.A.T.F. are coming up with are so ridiculous that people actually think it's justified. Yup, by you simply just shouldering an AR pistol with a Sig Brace you have just somehow magically changed the configuration of that weapon & have thereby re-manufactured it!

That was with the old administration.

We have to wait and see what the new administration looks like.

If the new administration treats ERBs and EBR accessories the way the old administration did, THEN we have problems.

Everyone should unknot their taint hairs and chill for a bit.

 

[Major03]

So, what does one do now if they pay the stamp tax on a Form 1 and want to build their own suppressor? Guess the cheaper route has been taken away...for now anyway.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

So, what does one do now if they pay the stamp tax on a Form 1 and want to build their own suppressor? Guess the cheaper route has been taken away...for now anyway.

Buy assault freeze plugs (AFPs) from NAPA.

Then go to a machine shop and have them manufacture a tube and plugs based on the diameter of the freeze plugs.

Just don't get all giddy and tell the machine shop what the parts are for.

 

[Major03]

Buy assault freeze plugs (AFPs) from NAPA.

Then go to a machine shop and have them manufacture a tube and plugs based on the diameter of the freeze plugs.

Just don't get all giddy and tell the machine shop what the parts are for.

Why not get giddy if you've paid the stamp fee? It's completely legal to build one at that point, no?