ATF Proposed Rule 41P

[BigDaddy]

Can't see how that's legal.

It's exactly the same as may issue.

 

[dontpanic]

I've only researched truats. Never looked into the traditional route for nfa. How can the CLEO refuse to sign off? Thay would be a de facto ban on nfa in a particular area
Can't see how that's legal.

In MD a lot of Sheriffs will sign off. In areas where he won't, MSP will sign off.

Sheriffs usually do it in a day or so. MSP sits on it for weeks. A rule change will hardly effect people where the local LEO will sign off. Just the added expense of fingerprints.

 

[ericoak]

If the trust system did not exist, I doubt MSP would do CLEO sign-offs right now.

They have been signing off before trusts were ever even really heard of for NFA.

 

[ericoak]

More hassle, longer wait. It's not the end of the world if trusts go away, but it's a heckuva lot more convenient that way.

Doesn't seem worth rushing a purchase to me. Areas where they won't sign is another matter.

 

[protegeV]

Doesn't seem worth rushing a purchase to me. Areas where they won't sign is another matter.

Who's rushing? I gotta wait 4 months anyway

 

[Pinecone]

There are other advantages to a trust.

More than one person can have access to the NFA items. If you purchase as an individual, no one else should have the combo to the safe. No one else can take them out and use them, even family members. With a trust, all the trustees can have access and use them.

With trust, you do not add the expense of fingerprints and photo for every purchase.

Also, with a trust, there is a path for the NFA items upon your death. With individual, you spouse would have to pay $200 each to have them transferred to them. With trust, the other trustees or the beneficiary get them.

 

[BigDaddy]

There are other advantages to a trust.

More than one person can have access to the NFA items. If you purchase as an individual, no one else should have the combo to the safe.

Virtually every ad for a trust says this and potentially you can go to jail for 10 years. What did people do before trusts? Does this mean everyone who has an NFA item as an individual, with a wife that knows the combination, will have his door kicked down.

I'm not trolling but there has to be thousands of people who don't use trusts.

 

[ericoak]

There are other advantages to a trust.

More than one person can have access to the NFA items. If you purchase as an individual, no one else should have the combo to the safe. No one else can take them out and use them, even family members. With a trust, all the trustees can have access and use them.

With trust, you do not add the expense of fingerprints and photo for every purchase.

Also, with a trust, there is a path for the NFA items upon your death. With individual, you spouse would have to pay $200 each to have them transferred to them. With trust, the other trustees or the beneficiary get them.

Actually inherited NFA items transfer on tax free a Form 5. The other parts are true, at least for now.

 

[Flipz]

Actually inherited NFA items for transfer on tax free a Form 5. The other parts are true, at least for now.

Correct. There is no transfer tax on inherited NFA items. This is a common misconception. There is only the requirement that the person inheriting the NFA item/items file a tax-free Form 5.

 

[balttigger]

Do I read that correctly that after implementation, everyone in a trust will have to submit fingerprints, etc when a new item is purchased? If I were to do a trust before the deadline and purchase something after the deadline - what hoops would I have to jump through?

 

[BigDaddy]

Nobody knows what the decision will be. They may keep things as they are and Barry may approve the Keystone pipeline. Otherwise the trustee is going to have to jump through the same hoops as the citizens.

We have bureaucrats deciding on whether bureaucrats ought to have more control or less. To us it's a 2A issue, to them it is job security.

 

[Wayne1one]

ATF Proposed is it actually a proposal or is it going to take effect (no matter what we say) in January 2016. All the letter writing and "comment" period was that all for nothing?

 

[BigDaddy]

All we know for sure is the decision date has been postponed for one month instead of six months as it has in the past.

 

[SWO Daddy]

They have been signing off before trusts were ever even really heard of for NFA.

My point still stands - the trust system incentives CLEOs to sign off. In a commie state like MD, we shouldn't shrug off 41p with an assumption that you can get a signature from the MSP (the route most people take).

 

[ericoak]

My point still stands - the trust system incentives CLEOs to sign off. In a commie state like MD, we shouldn't shrug off 41p with an assumption that you can get a signature from the MSP (the route most people take).

If you can find me an example where it caused a CLEO who didn't previously signed to start signing I'll agree with you. Otherwise, it isn't much of an incentive.

 

[Pinecone]

Virtually every ad for a trust says this and potentially you can go to jail for 10 years. What did people do before trusts? Does this mean everyone who has an NFA item as an individual, with a wife that knows the combination, will have his door kicked down.

I'm not trolling but there has to be thousands of people who don't use trusts.

No, but you are in violation of the law. And if something else happens, they would tack on charges.

 

[Pinecone]

Do I read that correctly that after implementation, everyone in a trust will have to submit fingerprints, etc when a new item is purchased? If I were to do a trust before the deadline and purchase something after the deadline - what hoops would I have to jump through?

What I could see is that every trustee has to have fingerprints and photo etc, WHEN they are added to the trust.

Not every time an item is purchased.

 

[bobthefisher]

What I could see is that every trustee has to have fingerprints and photo etc, WHEN they are added to the trust.

Not every time an item is purchased.

That would be a nice-ish compromise (not really), however unfortunately it's probably going to be for everyone on the trust; fingerprinted and photographed for each transfer after the ruling goes into place. Which sucks, and is a giant pain in the ass in my opinion. Will it stop me from buying NFA items? No, but is completely unnecessary increased government bureaucracy BS. I can't help but feel like somehow it's some kind of consolation prize for the current administration for not getting any increased gun control. Ass wipes!

 

[vector03]

With regard to a trust, must all trustees reside in the same location? Must all NFA items in the trust reside in the same location?

 

[Sundazes]

With regard to a trust, must all trustees reside in the same location? Must all NFA items in the trust reside in the same location?

No, as a matter of fact, my Trustee live in PA and I live in MD. FYI I had a "store bought" trust at one point. I had a friend of mine look at it and was told it was full of holes. I ended up having a NFA lawyer amend mine. It went from 6 pages to 50.....