Article on liberal gun owners

[foxtrapper]

Oh yeah, and I LOVE when they tell me I have a tiny penis! LOL

 

[Alan3413]

Oh yeah, and I LOVE when they tell me I have a tiny penis! LOL

I tell them, "Of course I'm compensating. It helps counter-balance the weight of my other pistol."

 

[Multifaceted]

I tell them, "Of course I'm compensating. It helps counter-balance the weight of my other pistol."

Brilliant!

 

[Benanov]

You forgot about the watching "Faux News" insult and the obligatory references to the Koch Brothers and ALEC.

I have no love for any of those organizations you quoted. Hell, the NRA irritates me on a *good* day. And yet, I'm here because 2A rights are just as important as the rest of the rights we're supposed to have been guaranteed under the Constitution.

As much as I hate the designation of "left" and "right" - if the pro-2A movement doesn't account for those sitting on the left, they're missing out on a whole pile of people. Liberal gun owners are "weird" but we do exist.

(Aside: The libertarian party/movement/etc is the same way - the "left" in this country is traditionally pretty populist (infer that I intend this term to mean a strong central government) and there are many left-leaning libertarians that dislike that - but don't care for the concept that everything should be privatized, free market uber alles, etc. because of its potential for abuse. My personal approach to government is "this is why we can't have nice things")

 

[jpk1md]

I have no love for any of those organizations you quoted. Hell, the NRA irritates me on a *good* day. And yet, I'm here because 2A rights are just as important as the rest of the rights we're supposed to have been guaranteed under the Constitution.

As much as I hate the designation of "left" and "right" - if the pro-2A movement doesn't account for those sitting on the left, they're missing out on a whole pile of people. Liberal gun owners are "weird" but we do exist.

(Aside: The libertarian party/movement/etc is the same way - the "left" in this country is traditionally pretty populist (infer that I intend this term to mean a strong central government) and there are many left-leaning libertarians that dislike that - but don't care for the concept that everything should be privatized, free market uber alles, etc. because of its potential for abuse. My personal approach to government is "this is why we can't have nice things")

I hate to disrupt your little fantasy but the notion of "Left Leaning Libertarians" is quite the oxymoron

With the possible exception of who you can bugger in the ass and whether or not you can kill a child the "Left" has quite a lock on the title of the party of tyranny

The "Left" is quite literally the party of tyranny and total government.....these values are the furthest thing from "Libertarian" views that I could possibly imagine

From private property to choice in healthcare to privacy every time we turn around its the left that is infringing or trampling our rights and trying to turn them into "privileges" that they control 100%

RKBA is no different........while there may be a small minority of gun owners who happen to be Dems, its those same dems that think that whether you are "allowed" to exercise that right (Priv) is subject to their review and conditions......and if they think you're a threat to their tender sensibilities then you have that right infringed upon for no end of stupid reasons.

When you decide to push back against free speech zones and the 68 GCA and ObamaCare (so much for choice eh?) let us know.......until then you're just another oddball conflicted dem

 

[abean4187]

I hate to disrupt your little fantasy but the notion of "Left Leaning Libertarians" is quite the oxymoron

With the possible exception of who you can bugger in the ass and whether or not you can kill a child the "Left" has quite a lock on the title of the party of tyranny

The "Left" is quite literally the party of tyranny and total government.....these values are the furthest thing from "Libertarian" views that I could possibly imagine

From private property to choice in healthcare to privacy every time we turn around its the left that is infringing or trampling our rights and trying to turn them into "privileges" that they control 100%

RKBA is no different........while there may be a small minority of gun owners who happen to be Dems, its those same dems that think that whether you are "allowed" to exercise that right (Priv) is subject to their review and conditions......and if they think you're a threat to their tender sensibilities then you have that right infringed upon for no end of stupid reasons.

When you decide to push back against free speech zones and the 68 GCA and ObamaCare (so much for choice eh?) let us know.......until then you're just another oddball conflicted dem

Are you being serious? Did you miss the literal 8 years of tyranny under Bush? Illegal spying, illegal wars, bank bailout, skyrocketing debt, etc . Hell, Obamacare IS based off of a Republican initiated state healthcare plan.

 

[jpk1md]

Are you being serious? Did you miss the literal 8 years of tyranny under Bush? Illegal spying, illegal wars, bank bailout, skyrocketing debt, etc . Hell, Obamacare IS based off of a Republican initiated state healthcare plan.

Typical Liberal

Always has to blame someone else instead of taking responsibilities for the tyranny of their own party

Obama and the dems could have shut down all of the above but did they?

Nope.....they doubled down on ALL of it

And as for the so called "Republican initiated state healthcare plan" I've got to call you out for being a lying sack of crap.......it was passed in Mass by a DEMOCRAT controlled legislature with veto proof majorities and merely signed into law by a piece of crap progressive governor who's no more conservative than Spector/Christie or Bloomberg

So instead of simply blaming the other party why not look at the political philosophy of the individuals in question

When you do so you find that the Demwit party votes lock step with the party leadership.....when you look at the GOP you have the party leadership which are big gov progressives being bucked by nearly half of the party which are actually conservative/libertarian in their philosophy

If you want to continue to to simply be a dumb sheep being led to slaughter then go for it.

 

[dr_gonzo71]

I'm a liberal and a gun enthusiast. Well maybe I'm not a liberal in the commonly held sense of the word but I am certainly not a conservative.

That's not to say I am at all happy with the democratic party. However I certainly do not see the republican party in the favorable light that so many gun owners do. Our political parties merely ensure we experience a lose-lose situation.

I agree. Our democracy is severely broken, and this corrupt two party system has got to go. Nothing will change for the better until a large percentage of voters drop their party affiliations and re-register as independents. Maybe then these hyper-partisan jokers on BOTH sides of the aisle will get the message.

 

[jpk1md]

I agree. Our democracy is severely broken,

What "Democracy" would that be?

Art IV guaratees a "Republican" form of gov for the states and clearly the Constitution provides for a "Constitutional Republc"

Funny thing is that Democracy does not appear in the US Constitution even once......nor does it appear in any of the 50 (57?) states individual constitutions either.

Why?

Because the old guys that wrote the constitution knew their history and that Democracies were violent and short lived

Back to our previously scheduled "democrat" fantasy.......

 

[Benanov]

I hate to disrupt your little fantasy but the notion of "Left Leaning Libertarians" is quite the oxymoron

No, not really.

With the possible exception of who you can bugger in the ass and whether or not you can kill a child the "Left" has quite a lock on the title of the party of tyranny

The "Left" is quite literally the party of tyranny and total government.....these values are the furthest thing from "Libertarian" views that I could possibly imagine

Incorrect. Libertarian philosophy is based off the non-aggression principle - i.e., you can't use force to make someone do something they don't want to do. The GOP in this country is quite happy to pass a bunch of laws to make people do just that.

It's very telling that of your two talking points, one is sex act and the other is a result. Do you forget straight people engage in anal sex? It seems to also be one of those things that religious teenage couples engage in because in some warped version of reality I can't subscribe to that lets the girl keep her virginity until marriage.

The other is abortion, which you describe in dehumanizing manner, as if a D&C were the only way it was performed. I have family in the medical field. I've researched abortions. I'm also very child-free, and if my wife got pregnant I'd be driving her to the clinic. You'll probably come up with some stupid insult over this one, but don't bother; I've heard them all before.

This is what I hate about the "right" in this country. They are quick to label people as less than human, and wonder why people don't like them. Here's a tip for you - stop labelling gay people with words that describe sex acts. When you finally exchaust your limited vocabulary looking for a word, I humbly suggest "gay people" - it contains the word "people" and then you might realize that as was actually stated in the Constitution, all people have rights.

You might not like what they do behind closed doors but guess what - whatever consenting adults want to do while consent is still present - that is none of my business. The "Right" seems to think they can tell people what to do (Cucchinelli seems to be really against oral sex.)...the left isn't immune also - oral sex of any kind is still banned in MD. Look it up.

Then you get to things like where you'll see women who protest the clinic every week go through the door one day and spout "the only moral abortion is my abortion and my reasons are special" - and they still get treated, and show up outside the clinic the next day. This hypocrisy isn't winning the conservative party many votes.

I've seen a lot of young people get fed up with Bush, buy into all that "hope and change" baloney Obama spouted, and instead of buying into the "oh the next party will be better" - they remember, and find that BOTH parties are the problem.

Also, are you going to pay for all those unwanted/accidental children? I'm fully in support of allowing people to choose the results of their own lives and it makes me very socially liberal - which is the correct meaning of Libertarian, not the garbage that the Tea Partiers have piled onto the term. It's not all just about taxes - it's letting people make their own choices...and neither party does that correctly.

From private property to choice in healthcare to privacy every time we turn around its the left that is infringing or trampling our rights and trying to turn them into "privileges" that they control 100%

The Right is not immune to this. A lot of establishment of religion comes from them these days. They are quite happy to deregulate things - removing unnecessary laws is good - removing "X abused it, so this is why we can't have nice things" laws ends up being a problem because oh look, those abuses are back. Glass-Steagall, for all the whining that the Right gave about it...kept us out of horrible recessions for a long time. Repealing it puts us in a recession. We'll need more data, but signs are pointing to not mere correlation here.

RKBA is no different........while there may be a small minority of gun owners who happen to be Dems, its those same dems that think that whether you are "allowed" to exercise that right (Priv) is subject to their review and conditions......and if they think you're a threat to their tender sensibilities then you have that right infringed upon for no end of stupid reasons.

When you decide to push back against free speech zones and the 68 GCA and ObamaCare (so much for choice eh?) let us know.......until then you're just another oddball conflicted dem

Free Speech zones are an affront to our rights and are one of the many things that turn the Police into a protected class that's better than the rest of us - and they need to be repealed, but instead the old fogeys in the legislature passed MORE bills saying that you can ban protests anywhere a Secret Service Agent might think about needing to show up - if this isn't a huge affront to your rights and government power, YOU haven't been paying attention. They want to crush occupy movements without any complaints, and the MSM will happily let them. Occupy was a bunch of youthful enthusiasm that started at least with a decent premise and turned into a joke, as is the case with people who have more enthusiasm than experience.

The NSA needs to stop spying on Americans - but I'm screaming in the wind here, because none of my friends bother to learn how to encrypt their email with GPG (and why it doesn't matter).

Apparently Kentucky residents like Kynect but hate Obamacare...OH WAIT THEY'RE THE SAME THING - (for the record, DailyKos is too liberal for my tastes, but I'll post the story to make the point) and I don't actually care for Obamacare.

It's the exact wrong thing. Forcing someone to buy something may have been "politically palatable" but the number of problems, both in legal precedent and how it doesn't actually make health care ANY MORE AFFORDABLE, would be my two biggest problems with the law. I have more, but let's start there.

The '68 GCA...I haven't read enough about it, considering I've lived my entire life under it, so I really don't know of a time when it didnt' exist. Really.

I grew up around guns, and I'm finally glad to be an owner myself as an adult. The number of legal hoops I jump through is ridiculous and if most of that is the '68 GCA then yes I'm against it.

I understand why gun registries are bad. Look at Canada. They finally stopped the long gun registry because it was a waste of money. Waiting for MD to realize that no significant data comes from their silly Shell Casing project. Look at the ATF, stuck on paper forms because they're not allowed to make a DB. It's funny - the engineer in me is like "damn dudes, make a database - queries FTW" and the libertarian in me is "let them suffer with paper forms - if we don't resist it now, they'll use it to harass and confiscate later"

Stop alienating young people. Who's going to carry the flag when you die? It's people like you that leave a bad taste in my mouth of asserting my gun rights more openly. The fact that I might be associated with your hateful spew and get any of it on me is why I don't wear a CC42A T-shirt.

 

[AlpineDude67]

I basically don't fit neatly into either box. On economic issues I am pretty conservative, but I'm pretty much a libertarian/liberal when it comes to social issues - you want to smoke weed, have gay sex, etc. I frankly could care less. Life is short and if that makes you happy and you aren't hurting anybody, go for it. It is not my business and not my problem. I'm not in favor of using the power of the state to impose a particular set of values on anybody, because I don't think it is anybody's business how I should live my life, unless I am messing with other people.

I actually think gun ownership causes the same kind of reaction in liberals that smoking weed causes in conservatives. In both cases, the people who are offended should really just butt out, because it is none of their business. And BTW, I am most definitely straight, happily married and haven't smoked weed in decades. Even if something is not for me, I am still willing to let other people make different choices in their lives. Liberals don't want to be that tolerant when it comes to gun rights, and a lot of conservatives don't want to be that tolerant when it comes to "moral" issues.

I have no issues with ordinary citizens owning guns. Sure, a gun is an inherently dangerous thing. So is a chainsaw and so are cars. It is true that there are a very, very small number of people out there that should not be trusted to handle something so dangerous, in the same way that nobody lets a 2 year old play with a running chainsaw. The criminally insane, people who have committed violent felonies in the past and the like. But that is about it. Anything beyond that is just people trying to impose their views and their values on the rest of us.

The overwhelming majority of people who own guns are law-abiding citizens who do no harm to anyone. That is a fact, not an opinion.

I think the main reason liberals hate guns is that they think that all people are inherently good, and that the only reason somebody would do something bad to another person is that somehow society has failed the wrong-doer. In that view, a society that has guns is defective. So we should not blame the maniac who picks up a gun to harm others, instead we are all to blame for giving that person an easy way to harm others.

I think the reality is that there are good people in the world, and not so good people in the world. Some people are simply mis-wired. It sure would be nice if everybody was inherently good, but that is a fantasy. Lots of people grow up in poverty, have abusive, drug-addicted parents, and they somehow don't become homicidal maniacs. Society plays a role in how people turn out, but it definitely isn't the only factor. There are indeed genuinely bad people in the world. Unfortunately, sometimes you need to use a gun to stop those people. That is why the police carry them.

Gun violence is a repudiation of the liberal view of humanity, which is a major reason why they want to eradicate guns. It forces them to face uncomfortable truths about the way the world actually works.

 

[clay_shooter]

I basically don't fit neatly into either box. On economic issues I am pretty conservative, but I'm pretty much a libertarian/liberal when it comes to social issues - you want to smoke weed, have gay sex, etc. I frankly could care less. Life is short and if that makes you happy and you aren't hurting anybody, go for it. It is not my business and not my problem. I'm not in favor of using the power of the state to impose a particular set of values on anybody, because I don't think it is anybody's business how I should live my life, unless I am messing with other people.

I think there are a lot of folks with similar views to what you stated. Its one reason I wish postings in these forums would stick to the topic of firearms ownership and rights protection and stay away from social commentary. Why shrink the pool of support by driving people away?

...

Gun violence is a repudiation of the liberal view of humanity, which is a major reason why they want to eradicate guns. It forces them to face uncomfortable truths about the way the world actually works.

I like the way you phrased this.

 

[jpk1md]

No, not really.

Incorrect. Libertarian philosophy is based off the non-aggression principle - i.e., you can't use force to make someone do something they don't want to do. The GOP in this country is quite happy to pass a bunch of laws to make people do just that.

Not really........

The fact of the matter is it appears you completely failed to read previous post, even in this very thread pointing out that GOP leadership has acted like big gov progressives.......but when provided with the opportunity to dismantle some of the nonsense, the Dems/Obama instead doubled down on it.

Stop blaming the GOP for the fact that your own party is perpetually at the center of the most heinous violations of libery/freedom and has been for over 100 years.

So no.....you're way off the paper when it comes to your characterization of Libertarian(ism)

IMHO Boaz nails it in the simplest way

http://www.theihs.org/what-libertarian

Libertarianism is the view that each person has the right to live his life in any way he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others. Libertarians defend each person's right to life, liberty, and property-rights that people have naturally, before governments are created. In the libertarian view, all human relationships should be voluntary; the only actions that should be forbidden by law are those that involve the initiation of force against those who have not themselves used force-actions like murder, rape, robbery, kidnapping, and fraud.

But Murray nails how the word "Liberal" has been coopted and perverted by the Progressive/Dem party

This is what I hate about the "right" in this country. They are quick to label people as less than human, and wonder why people don't like them. Here's a tip for you - stop labelling gay people with words that describe sex acts. When you finally exchaust your limited vocabulary looking for a word, I humbly suggest "gay people" - it contains the word "people" and then you might realize that as was actually stated in the Constitution, all people have rights.

The fact of the matter is 1. You falsely assume what my political leaning are and 2 YOU'RE the one labeling people

rif.org........go back and re-read my post.

I pointed out the two oddball BEHAVIORS that the Dem party has chosen to rally around and you're the one that jumped off the deep end into "Label and Stereotype" hysteria

The point I was making was that the Dems didn't choose to defend right to self defense

It didn't choose right to privacy

It didn't choose property rights

It didn't even choose Labor (Progressive income taxes are a form of slavery)

It didn't choose any other classical natural rights that actually MEAN something,

They have instead chosen to wave the communist flag over false issues like where you can stick your dick and whether you can kill an unborn child

Also, are you going to pay for all those unwanted/accidental children? I'm fully in support of allowing people to choose the results of their own lives and it makes me very socially liberal - which is the correct meaning of Libertarian, not the garbage that the Tea Partiers have piled onto the term. It's not all just about taxes - it's letting people make their own choices...and neither party does that correctly.

Again, you're off the paper in lala land

The notion of "Socially Liberal" is comical

You claim to be "Socially Liberal" but yet you continue to support the Dem Party and politicians that trample the rights of individuals with more and more government and more and more regulations

As for the whole tea party thing well thats just another false distraction

You've demonstrated that you know nothing about what the vast majority of folks in that loose movement support

At its core it is a Libertarian movement.....less government and more freedom.......its the exact opposite of the Dem party which perpetually advocates for MORE gov and LESS freedom

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

The Right is not immune to this. A lot of establishment of religion comes from them these days.

Wow....you've got quite the active imagination

Funny how I can't find a single bill on thomas.gov where ANYONE has attempted to establish an official state religion

Good luck defending that one......

They are quite happy to deregulate things - removing unnecessary laws is good - removing "X abused it, so this is why we can't have nice things" laws ends up being a problem because oh look, those abuses are back. Glass-Steagall, for all the whining that the Right gave about it...kept us out of horrible recessions for a long time. Repealing it puts us in a recession. We'll need more data, but signs are pointing to not mere correlation here.

Unfortunately this is just another distraction

GS wasn't the problem.....Fractional Reserve Banking is the problem.....and what is FRB ultimately? Its central economic planning.......aka big gov progressivism......

You falsely blame GS for issues created by a monetary system that at its core steals the labor (product of labor) from the citizens of its country through devaluation of its currency,

Gee....and who brought us Fractional Reserve Banking and the Fed Reserve?

Drum roll please.........Progressive Dems

Free Speech zones are an affront to our rights and are one of the many things that turn the Police into a protected class that's better than the rest of us - and they need to be repealed, but instead the old fogeys in the legislature passed MORE bills saying that you can ban protests anywhere a Secret Service Agent might think about needing to show up - if this isn't a huge affront to your rights and government power, YOU haven't been paying attention. They want to crush occupy movements without any complaints, and the MSM will happily let them. Occupy was a bunch of youthful enthusiasm that started at least with a decent premise and turned into a joke, as is the case with people who have more enthusiasm than experience.

Let me get this straight.....you think Occupy with its core message of theft (Redistribution) not to mention the pervasive violence, crime, rape and private property theft and damage that occurred everywhere there was an occupy movements......you think that this was ok?

But somehow the hundreds of thousands of "Tea Partiers" who protested all over the country, some of them openly armed.....who harmed no one, violated no one elses rights and left no trash behind are somehow bad?

So how do you defend the Obama administrations continued harrassment of pro liberty groups by the IRS?

This ought to be interesting.....

Apparently Kentucky residents like Kynect but hate Obamacare...OH WAIT THEY'RE THE SAME THING - (for the record, DailyKos is too liberal for my tastes, but I'll post the story to make the point) and I don't actually care for Obamacare.

Seriously....you might as well reference Wikipedia as a Reference than Huffington Post.

But nonetheless I'll bite....

Clearly what you're missing from both the pro liberty and the tea party arguments is the push for Constitutional Gov.

If the citizens of Mass or any other state wish to implement some kooky plan in their own state then more power to them.......no one in "Tea Party" is taking issue with Mass's kooky communist plans.....they just move to states where it doesnt exist

The problem is that you progressives/communists want to FORCE it on ALL of us through the use of clearly unconstitutional gov

You seek to control people by removing ANY choice over how people live their lives.......all for the false promise of "The greater good" of course.

The '68 GCA...I haven't read enough about it, considering I've lived my entire life under it, so I really don't know of a time when it didnt' exist. Really.

I grew up around guns, and I'm finally glad to be an owner myself as an adult. The number of legal hoops I jump through is ridiculous and if most of that is the '68 GCA then yes I'm against it.

Classic progressive.

You've got a special niche interest now and have realized that Gun Control is destructive of personal liberty/freedom....great, welcome, glad you opened up your eyes on at least one issue.....

But what about Obamacare, Fractional Reserve Banking, Fed Reserve, Freddie/Fanny, TARP, The trillion dollar bailout, Progressive Income Taxes, Private Property Rights, excessive regulation, Medicare/Medicaid and the entire freakin' "New Deal" that have landed us in the crapper under more that 200 trillion in debt?

Yes....that reference is NPR....I figured I would give you a reference that even YOU can't take issue with

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/06/139027615/a-national-debt-of-14-trillion-try-211-trillion



Liberty/Freedom are not limited to one or two issue like RKBA or where you're allowed to stick your dick........hopefully you'll wake up to the fact that the Dem Party IS the party of Tyranny.....GOP is FAR from perfect but if I HAVE to choose between Tyranny and the alternative you better believe I'll choose the alternative and then try to change the alternative party from within.......because there's no changing the Dem party........its fully committed to full blown tyranny....if you cannot see that then you're not paying attention to whats going on

I understand why gun registries are bad. Look at Canada. They finally stopped the long gun registry because it was a waste of money. Waiting for MD to realize that no significant data comes from their silly Shell Casing project. Look at the ATF, stuck on paper forms because they're not allowed to make a DB. It's funny - the engineer in me is like "damn dudes, make a database - queries FTW" and the libertarian in me is "let them suffer with paper forms - if we don't resist it now, they'll use it to harass and confiscate later"

Actually the LGR in canada was not stopped because it was a waste of money (which it was but).....rather it was stopped because citizens refused to comply.....and it took well over a decade for the Conservatives to repeal the law that the canadian left fought tooth and nail to keep.

Gee, I bet it burns you up that its been the Conservatives in Canada that were the ones that defended Rights and are the ones that have managed to put Canada on a reasonably stable financial foundation with low debt and relatively sound money....and are the ones that are working to repeal canada's socialist medical system.......I bet it burns you up that the biggest failures and transgressions of rights have all been the product of the Left

Stop alienating young people. Who's going to carry the flag when you die? It's people like you that leave a bad taste in my mouth of asserting my gun rights more openly. The fact that I might be associated with your hateful spew and get any of it on me is why I don't wear a CC42A T-shirt.

The hilarity of this is that you folks on the left are the ones that are alienating people.

You promise special privs for this group and special privs for that group and guess what.....more and more people are waking up to the fact that you are enslaving them.

And THEN you turn around and criticize people who want to be free from all of the left's kooky idea's to trample individual rights force people to live/behave a certain way that THEY deem to be best

So keep up the misinformation....very few people are paying attention anymore.