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  • Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,925
    AA County
    As a former member of the Media I might be uniquely qualified to bait this hook, but I need the rest of the fishing gear like who would the reporter interview? (not me - job reasons) what kind of illustration could go with such a story.

    Actually baiting this hook is easy.
    with the massive increase of gun purchases it is too easy to interest a reaction story.

    But they will want to talk to people in the gun industry and people like MSI who can speak authoritatively about the industry.

    MSI can provide the contact point. The concern is wether the story will be fair or will the reporter and/or the editing department will take the story "another way".

    We need someone willing to standup and tell the story of how CCW has worked out in our neighboring states. No blood in the streets and no mass killings by CCW holders. Stats show CCW holders are less likely to get into legal problems then members of law enforcement.


    I know he doesn't work for a newspaper but reporter Lowell Melser of WBAL11 is very pro-2A. He does the news on the 98rock morning show from time to time and on more than one occasion he has expressed his frustration with MD's handgun permit system and how he wants a permit to carry but didn't bother to apply for obvious reasons.:thumbsup:

    Here's his bio and contact info.
    http://www.wbaltv.com/station/3754733/detail.html

    There is one heck of a story brewing out there, between the 40 plus court cases working their way to the Supreme Court and the 30+ Shall Issue States all ready accepting the outcome, the world will change in the next 24 months. A good reporter should be able to see the writing on the wall and make his/her career on leading the pack with the story. It will not just be a Maryland story, but a National story.

    Point your 2A friendly reporter friends to this thread, MSI's web page and have them join the forum. MSI would be very willing to work with the correct person who is committed to getting the real story, committed to doing some basic research, willing to question the "facts" esposed by the "Anti" crowd and able to represent us as the law abiding citizens we are. I truely believe that a good reporter could become the National "go-to" reference for all future gun stories. Books could be written telling the story of America's regaining our 2nd Amendment Right. It is a National story with grass roots elements in various state (CA, PA, VA, FL, IL, MD... etc.) working independently and in concert to reclaim our Right.
     

    rob

    DINO Extraordinaire
    Oct 11, 2010
    3,100
    Augusta, GA
    Seeing all of this discussion on training really bothers me...

    I understand that some may fear issues with untrained people buying and carrying guns, but that is "liberal fear frenzy" thinking. It hasn't happened elsewhere and it won't happen here.

    If someone is going to do something stupid, they are going to do it whether or not they take a class or pass a test. Passing a drivers test never stopped some drunk idiot from flying off the road and getting himself (and others unfortunately) killed.

    Personally:

    1) I would likely apply for a CCW, just so I don't have to worry about stopping to get a cup of coffee on the way to/from the range.

    2) I would most likely only carry very rarely, but I want to be able to exercise my 2A rights.

    3) I will CONSIDER supporting training and/or tests for CCW when Politicans support training and tests on intelligence, understanding of the Constitution, and cause and effect relationships for all people wishing to exercising their right to vote, and most especially ALL elected representatives!

    just my $.02,
    Rob
     

    OEH

    Active Member
    Nov 18, 2010
    353
    29B
    Seeing all of this discussion on training really bothers me...

    I understand that some may fear issues with untrained people buying and carrying guns, but that is "liberal fear frenzy" thinking. It hasn't happened elsewhere and it won't happen here.

    If someone is going to do something stupid, they are going to do it whether or not they take a class or pass a test. Passing a drivers test never stopped some drunk idiot from flying off the road and getting himself (and others unfortunately) killed.

    Personally:

    1) I would likely apply for a CCW, just so I don't have to worry about stopping to get a cup of coffee on the way to/from the range.

    2) I would most likely only carry very rarely, but I want to be able to exercise my 2A rights.

    3) I will CONSIDER supporting training and/or tests for CCW when Politicans support training and tests on intelligence, understanding of the Constitution, and cause and effect relationships for all people wishing to exercising their right to vote, and most especially ALL elected representatives!

    just my $.02,
    Rob
    This :thumbsup:

    Well the best proof nothing bad will happen is MD has no training requirement now and nothing has happened.
    Yeah, but that's only because they don't let those people have a permit.:rolleyes:
     

    usmcdad

    Active Member
    May 15, 2010
    113
    This is a great string.

    After a lot of thought lately, and never having owned a handgun before (but having enjoyed plinking over the years with others' hardware), I'm purchasing my first handgun in the next month or so, in a compact size that is reasonable for CC. Also plan to get the Utah CC training.

    And I'm doing it for one overriding reason - I've come to the conclusion that a right not exercised, is a right that can too easily be lost.

    I plan to exercise my right to the fullest extend currently allowed by law here in the People's Republic of Maryland.
     
    Last edited:

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,606
    SoMD / West PA
    After a lot of thought lately, and never having owned a handgun before (but having enjoyed plinking over the years with others' hardware), I'm purchasing my first handgun in the next month or so, in a compact size that is reasonable for CC. Also plan to get the Utah CC training.

    Welcome to the madness
     

    Bikebreath

    R.I.P.
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 30, 2009
    14,836
    in the bowels of Baltimore
    This is a great string.

    After a lot of thought lately, and never having owned a handgun before (but having enjoyed plinking over the years with others' hardware), I'm purchasing my first handgun in the next month or so, in a compact size that is reasonable for CC. Also plan to get the Utah CC training.

    And I'm doing it for one overriding reason - I've come to the conclusion that a right not exercised, is a right that can too easily be lost.

    I plan to exercise my right to the fullest extend currently allowed by law here in the People's Republic of Maryland.

    There are many here with your sentiments. We keep after them, (see signature), only to lessen future rights from disappearing. It took some 40 years to get here and it isn't going to change tomorrow. Many like you see the struggle and throw up their hands and turn away. I absolute believe that if half the Democrats in this state that believe 2A was important got off their dead behinds and did a little something about it, it would force the boobs in Anna. to listen. So, let's go get their attention.

    ETA: ...and welcome to mdshooters.
     

    Abacab

    Member
    Sep 10, 2009
    2,644
    MD
    I wonder how many LEO's could get 50 rounds into 1" at 100 yards with a standard handgun? Heck from stuff I hear, there's a bunch of Barney Fifes out there (countrywide) who sound like they are unable to hit a barn door from 50 feet away. I don't know how they pass qualification every 6 months. I can't even get the 25 yard shooting myself, but that is an eyesight issue, and I'm not a LEO, who should have good eyesight to stay on the job. If only someone had taken me under their wing when I was 16 and had 20/10 in both eyes w/out correction. I probably would have been an Annie Oakley once I got over the flinching LOL.

    After hanging around a lot at a range, I can say that some of the worst shots are those training for a private security job. They basically keep an open tab for all the lines they shoot down.

    More often than not, those who describe themselves as "experts" will load the magazine backwards. They'll come out wondering what's wrong with their gun. No joke.
     

    Safetech

    I open big metal boxes
    May 28, 2011
    4,454
    Dundock
    Something to watch out for (and probably expect)

    I worked on getting Locksmith licensing in MD since 1994. In fact, the first bill introduced in Annapolis was written on my own 286. It passed the Senate on the first try (with no lobbyist -only grass-roots), only to be killed in a house committee.

    My delegate (on that committee) dropped the ball. (Probably on purpose)

    It has been an up and down fight since then.

    A few years ago, we FINALLY got a watered down bill to the Governor's desk -which he signed. Then the next battle began.

    We have been waiting ever since for the state to fund it! You can get a law passed, but if the state doesn't allocate the funds, it just sits on a shelf until they do.

    That is my fear in this case. I'm afraid that there will be so many people flooding the existing system with applications, a bottleneck will develop and the state will avoid allocating the additional funds to hire more people to process them.

    Sure, the law will be in place. But how long will it take the state (whom I'm sure will drag their feet anyway) to actually ISSUE the permits.

    This is one reason that I am now strongly considering an out of state permit. Logic tells me that people who already possess them "may" get streamlined with the right pressure put on the state by them, since the argument can be made that "Hey, I already HAVE a permit in XX".

    Never know. But it is worth some forethought.


    BTW - It looks like the locksmith licensing MAY finally be getting funded this year.
     

    P-12 Norm

    Why be normal?
    Sep 9, 2009
    1,718
    Bowie, MD
    Boxcab, thanks for your continued diligence.

    I see a good 5 or 6 topics/threads that could be created right now, to discuss future concerns.

    Anyone want to take a stab at making a list, then prioritizing the most urgent issues, versus the peripheral issues?

    We aren't the first to go throguh this transition, we can probably learn quite a bit from our fellow Virginians, and any wisdom they can impart having gone through this recently.
    I do know that FFX police acted hostile toward CCW and OC, and pretty much responded in a harrassing manner to any and all "man with a gun" calls they received.
    It took VCDL a while to get the situation under control. I would have to imagine MSI would play that role here in MD, becuase if they did not, who would?

    So, I'll offer that one of the most immediate concerns/topics will be protecting all of the new permit holders from harassing situations. Some legal advice how the individual would deal with this type of situation might be a good start.


    Good point, John!
     

    navycraig

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 3, 2009
    1,359
    St. Mary's
    Letter to my Sheriff

    I sent a letter to the St. Mary's County Sheriff asking some specific questions. If interested, see my questions and his reply below.

    20 May 2011

    Dear Sheriff Cameron,

    As a pro-Second Amendment resident of St. Mary’s County, I would like to bring the following to your attention and ask that you reply with respect to each.

    1. As you are well aware, with MD currently being a “may issue” state, very few citizens are afforded the opportunity to carry a concealed firearm. I, along with many others believe that this will change over the course of the next 24-36 months and that MD will become a “shall issue” state. Undoubtedly, once that happens, like me, many St. Mary’s County residents will apply for and eventually be issued permits to carry. I would appreciate it if you would comment on what, if any training your officers have had, or will undergo in order to make the transition as smooth as possible. I bring this training issue up because there are numerous instances in states that are currently and have been “shall issue” for a long time, where officers were unsure of how to handle concealed (or open) carry situations once they were faced with them.

    2. In an ongoing court case, (Civil Case No. 1:10-cv-2068-JFM) Maryland Attorney General Gansler made the following written comments: “anyone who can lawfully possess a long gun to wear and carry it, concealed or openly, anywhere the holder of a handgun carry permit could carry a handgun” and “ Maryland Does Not Require a Permit to Wear and Carry a LongGun Outside the Home”. While the statement does not specifically say “loaded”, we must assume that is what he meant as there would be no reason to carry an unloaded gun. My reading of that tells me that it is perfectly legal for me to walk the streets of St. Mary’s County with a legally owned and possessed long gun slung over my shoulder. That said, I don’t want to be the test case of that argument and would appreciate it if you could provide me with your interpretation of the statement and an indication on what your officers would likely do if they encountered such an incident.

    a. For a full reading of the brief in question please see pages 14 and 16 of Case 1:10-cv-02068-JFM Document 26 Filed 03/22/11

    3. Lastly, Maryland Criminal Law Section 4-203(b)(3)(4) sets out exceptions to the laws concerning carry and transport of handguns. It specifically states that the handgun must be in an “enclosed case or and enclosed holster.” I would appreciate it if you would define for me “enclosed holster” as it would apply to what your officers expect. Nowhere that I can find in the law does it say that the gun can’t be in said holster on the seat next to me…as long as it is unloaded. Linked to that question is the issue about loaded magazines. Maryland law does not specifically address the issue and a document (attached) from Assistant Attorney General Mark Bowen indicates that it is not illegal to carry a loaded magazine in my automobile while transporting a handgun as long as I am doing so in accordance with the approved activities listed in 4-203. If correct, it would be perfectly legal for me to have an unloaded gun (as long as it is in an enclosed case or holster), next to a loaded magazine, on the seat next to me while traveling from my home to Sanner’s Lake Sportsman’s Club to participate in a shooting event.
    I would very much appreciate your thoughts on each of the issues listed above and I thank you for your time in advance. I also extend my thanks and appreciation for your service to our county.


    With warm regards,
    XXXXX


    -----------------------Break----------------------------------------
    Mr. XXXX,

    I will respond to your questions in order. Please understand that my response has no bearing in a criminal prosecution where the legal interpretation would come from the States Attorney`s Office.

    Question 1- We deal with individuals everyday who posses concealed handguns/weapons either legally or illegally. Each officer receives substantial training dealing with these situations to include legal updates , as the law changes frequently.

    Question 2- It is legal to posses and carry a long gun openly, NOT concealed or loaded. This is not something I would recommend as it is a certainty that police would be called and have to respond to a person with a gun call with unknown "intent".

    Question 3- The requirement is for a handgun to be in an enclosed case or holster. Enclosed would be surrounded on all sides as defined typically. As to the loaded magazines question the Asst Attorney General indicated it would be legal to transport under the enumerated exceptions "an individual may legally transport a loaded magazine, separate from a handgun, in a vehicle when traveling in connection with the activities listed in Section 4-203(b)". The question as to how "separately " would be defined by the police officer(s) is dependent upon the totality of the situation. Having a loaded magazine next to an enclosed firearm , in my opinion, is neither prudent or legal.

    Again, my opinions are based on the police perspective and how I interpret the law in our venue. The States Attorney for St. Mary`s would be the deciding factor on if and how a case is prosecuted.

    If you have further questions please call.



    Timothy K. Cameron
    Sheriff
    St. Mary`s County
    (301)475-4200 Ext. 1911
    (301)475-6865 fax
    (240)298-2027cell>>>
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    I sent a letter to the St. Mary's County Sheriff asking some specific questions. If interested, see my questions and his reply below.


    I will respond to your questions in order. Please understand that my response has no bearing in a criminal prosecution where the legal interpretation would come from the States Attorney`s Office.

    Question 1- We deal with individuals everyday who posses concealed handguns/weapons either legally or illegally. Each officer receives substantial training dealing with these situations to include legal updates , as the law changes frequently.

    Question 2- It is legal to posses and carry a long gun openly, NOT concealed or loaded. This is not something I would recommend as it is a certainty that police would be called and have to respond to a person with a gun call with unknown "intent".

    Question 3- The requirement is for a handgun to be in an enclosed case or holster. Enclosed would be surrounded on all sides as defined typically. As to the loaded magazines question the Asst Attorney General indicated it would be legal to transport under the enumerated exceptions "an individual may legally transport a loaded magazine, separate from a handgun, in a vehicle when traveling in connection with the activities listed in Section 4-203(b)". The question as to how "separately " would be defined by the police officer(s) is dependent upon the totality of the situation. Having a loaded magazine next to an enclosed firearm , in my opinion, is neither prudent or legal.

    Again, my opinions are based on the police perspective and how I interpret the law in our venue. The States Attorney for St. Mary`s would be the deciding factor on if and how a case is prosecuted.
    If you have further questions please call.


    Timothy K. Cameron
    Sheriff
    St. Mary`s County
    (301)475-4200 Ext. 1911
    (301)475-6865 fax
    (240)298-2027cell


    IRT Q2, Sheriff Cameron errs when he states the open carried long gun can not be loaded. He is probably correct when he states the police would be called...

    IRT Q3, there is no statute stating a loaded magazine can't be "near" an unloaded firearm in a vehicle.

    Note how he properly defers to the States Atty office for interpretation.

    The latest State's AG ruling on Long Guns should be passed to all Sheriff's Offices in the state.

    Attorney General Long Gun rulings
     

    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,775
    Personally:

    1) I would likely apply for a CCW, just so I don't have to worry about stopping to get a cup of coffee on the way to/from the range.

    2) I would most likely only carry very rarely, but I want to be able to exercise my 2A rights.

    3) I will CONSIDER supporting training and/or tests for CCW when Politicans support training and tests on intelligence, understanding of the Constitution, and cause and effect relationships for all people wishing to exercising their right to vote, and most especially ALL elected representatives!



    Yeah, but that's only because they don't let those people have a permit.:rolleyes:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Years ago, as a regular Joe living in Hometown, USA, I would have supported the idea of training in the safe and proper use of weapons. However, nowhere in the Constitution is training for the exercise of any right mandated or even suggested. I suspect that years ago, it was up to the populace to decide what was acceptable behavior (training) and what was not.

    Now, since the liberals in this country are so determined to decide for us what we need, I would fight the idea of mandatory training for the right to carry as arbitrary and capricious. Unless training is mandated for all potentially harmful behaviors such as parenting, alcoholic beverage consumption, prescription drug use, driving under adverse conditions, smoking, hiking/camping in the wilderness, politicians in knowledge of the Constitution and law/integrity/proper use of Facebook/Twitter, etc, etc, etc.

    Training is important, effective and necessary. Mandated training is just another method at chipping away at the freedoms we continue to lose almost daily, usually in the name of public safety, 'reasonable restrictions', or 'not in our best interest'.
     

    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,925
    AA County
    So, the summer doldrums have arrived. :)

    We all know that the State will fight to restrict CCW issuance once the “Good and Substantial” wording is removed. The Legislators and Sate Police will scramble to fill its place with something that they can use to regain control of who they want to issue to. Higher fees, more stringent training requirements, longer waiting periods, more thorough background checks, etc, etc, etc.

    How will we fight these proposals?

    We will continue to fight any new laws in the General Assembly when they are introduced, but some will be voted into law. The State Police will drag their feet and throw new hurdles at us.

    I expect a lot of legal gamesmanship between “us” and "them" and I believe that there should be a "Maryland Gun Owners Legal Defense Fund" to head these things off. We will need someone that can step in to get injunctions against new laws/policies and help bail out a CCW holder during the “education process” of law enforcement. I would expect the MGOLDF to be very similar to the other civil rights defenders such as the ACLU, but dedicated to Maryland 2nd Amendment issues.

    Thoughts?
     

    Dean5791

    Remington Fan
    Mar 25, 2010
    90
    Mr. XXXX,

    I will respond to your questions in order. Please understand that my response has no bearing in a criminal prosecution where the legal interpretation would come from the States Attorney`s Office.

    Question 1- We deal with individuals everyday who posses concealed handguns/weapons either legally or illegally. Each officer receives substantial training dealing with these situations to include legal updates , as the law changes frequently.

    Question 2- It is legal to posses and carry a long gun openly, NOT concealed or loaded. This is not something I would recommend as it is a certainty that police would be called and have to respond to a person with a gun call with unknown "intent".

    Question 3- The requirement is for a handgun to be in an enclosed case or holster. Enclosed would be surrounded on all sides as defined typically. As to the loaded magazines question the Asst Attorney General indicated it would be legal to transport under the enumerated exceptions "an individual may legally transport a loaded magazine, separate from a handgun, in a vehicle when traveling in connection with the activities listed in Section 4-203(b)". The question as to how "separately " would be defined by the police officer(s) is dependent upon the totality of the situation. Having a loaded magazine next to an enclosed firearm , in my opinion, is neither prudent or legal.

    Again, my opinions are based on the police perspective and how I interpret the law in our venue. The States Attorney for St. Mary`s would be the deciding factor on if and how a case is prosecuted.

    If you have further questions please call.



    Timothy K. Cameron
    Sheriff
    St. Mary`s County
    (301)475-4200 Ext. 1911
    (301)475-6865 fax
    (240)298-2027cell>>>

    I was expecting much more definitive answers from the Sheriff. It is stunning to see how interpretations vary. You want to do the right thing but the laws were so poorly written that establishing what the "right thing" is, is nearly impossible.
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    So, the summer doldrums have arrived. :)

    We all know that the State will fight to restrict CCW issuance once the “Good and Substantial” wording is removed. The Legislators and Sate Police will scramble to fill its place with something that they can use to regain control of who they want to issue to. Higher fees, more stringent training requirements, longer waiting periods, more thorough background checks, etc, etc, etc.

    How will we fight these proposals?

    We will continue to fight any new laws in the General Assembly when they are introduced, but some will be voted into law. The State Police will drag their feet and throw new hurdles at us.

    I expect a lot of legal gamesmanship between “us” and "them" and I believe that there should be a "Maryland Gun Owners Legal Defense Fund" to head these things off. We will need someone that can step in to get injunctions against new laws/policies and help bail out a CCW holder during the “education process” of law enforcement. I would expect the MGOLDF to be very similar to the other civil rights defenders such as the ACLU, but dedicated to Maryland 2nd Amendment issues.

    Thoughts?

    Higher fees
    - No more than is standard in our neighboring states. I'm not saying they won't try, but look at Kwong v. Bloomberg (NY Handgun Permit fees) of $300+ and figure that is probably the highest allowable.

    More stringent training requirements
    - Why weren't these more stringent requirements necessary in the Status Quo?. Potential suit necessary if not stopped in the GA.

    - Longer waiting periods
    For a CCW Permit? Nope.

    More thorough background checks
    - They do that now for a regulated vs unregulated purchase, throwing in a MDSP component. That would likely stand as long as it isn't prohibitive. Only Federal prohibitions should follow. DUI, a misdemeanor bar fight...good to go.
    Bad eyesight, loss of a lower limb, in a wheel chair, 80 years old and all of the above....good to go or else we'll have Americans with Disability Act on our side and quickly.

    Absolutely concur on the need for a Legal Trust Fund UNLESS MSI wants these duties. I truly believe there is sufficient support to finance a few "No Brainer" suits against the likely antics we'll see from Annapolis.

    This MD Legal Defense Trust Fund wouldn't need to be at the level of an ACLU, but the folks at the CalGuns Foundation would be a great model. They're the Legal Ant ruining the proverbial Anti Picnic.

    CGF's Sunshine Initiate is to be applauded. We in Maryland could easily do the same once G&S is removed.
     

    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,925
    AA County
    After the latest developments in the world of 2nd Amendment litigation, it now looks like we will very likely have the equivalent of “Shall Issue” or “Permit-less Carry” in Maryland right around the end of June 2012. According to my calendar that is just over 11 months or 337 days, but who's counting?

    There will be some time while the State ponders “WTF just happened”? The Brady’s will claim that the SCOTUS is legislating from the bench and gun owners will be overcome by BGOS and be afraid to act.

    Expect the General Assembly to start considering legislation that will put a ball and chain on our restored Right. We will need to fight this with everything we have. Some will hesitate to act in fear of making the Anti’s “uncomfortable” and the fear of enactment of strict regulations. Something they will do anyhow, just like the past decade has shown us.

    The fact is that the tide is turning and we will need to catch this wave of change and capitalize on our opportunity.

    Be ready.
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Personally:1) I would likely apply for a CCW, just so I don't have to worry about stopping to get a cup of coffee on the way to/from the range. 2) I would most likely only carry very rarely, but I want to be able to exercise my 2A rights.3) I will CONSIDER supporting training and/or tests for CCW when Politicans support training and tests on intelligence, understanding of the Constitution, and cause and effect relationships for all people wishing to exercising their right to vote, and most especially ALL elected representatives!
    Yeah, but that's only because they don't let those people have a permit.:rolleyes:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Years ago, as a regular Joe living in Hometown, USA, I would have supported the idea of training in the safe and proper use of weapons. However, nowhere in the Constitution is training for the exercise of any right mandated or even suggested. I suspect that years ago, it was up to the populace to decide what was acceptable behavior (training) and what was not.

    Now, since the liberals in this country are so determined to decide for us what we need, I would fight the idea of mandatory training for the right to carry as arbitrary and capricious. Unless training is mandated for all potentially harmful behaviors such as parenting, alcoholic beverage consumption, prescription drug use, driving under adverse conditions, smoking, hiking/camping in the wilderness, politicians in knowledge of the Constitution and law/integrity/proper use of Facebook/Twitter, etc, etc, etc.

    Training is important, effective and necessary. Mandated training is just another method at chipping away at the freedoms we continue to lose almost daily, usually in the name of public safety, 'reasonable restrictions', or 'not in our best interest'.

    I'm going to go with this as the best answer so far, I feel much the same way. When I first joined MSI I was a big training advocate, maybe because I knew I already had enough credentials or could easily pass just about any test 'they' could dream up. But after watching how things really happen, I see that training is more often used to divide us, and even worse to make it even harder or impossible for some to carry. Today I'm ok with the status quo; specifically that one only needs to watch a short, free video to purchase and no training required for a MD CCW permit. After all, as they say, this is already the way it is, and there have been no issues. Never thought I would say that or feel this way; and in a perfect world I would love for everyone (police included) to be able to pass the 'US Air Marshals' qualification, and be Saints; but given an all or nothing option, I'll take what's working right now.

    Regarding the Sheriff's response: I'm encouraged that he did respond and was very candid in his comments. Even though I disagree with some of what he said, I get where he's coming from and just like most of us feel, if the letter of the law is unclear, we ease back from that. None of us really want to be 'the test case', and very few take even procedural issues to task. I applaud it all though, we are seeing good progress.

    Thanks again to everyone willing to even say what they think is right.

    Where would you draw the line regarding who could receive a permit?:

    (All occupations imply active and retired, without disqualifications)

    Sworn police officers
    Judges
    Military
    Constables
    Anyone with a national security clearance
    Sheriffs
    Deputies
    Armored car personnel
    Security employees
    Mayors
    Any elected official
    Teachers and school employees
    Government (State, Fed, County, Municipal) employees
    Business owners
    Anyone who can pass a background check
    Any non-violent felon, who has not committed a crime within 5 years
    Anyone who has not committed a felony within the last 5 years
    Anyone (US Citizen implied)
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,856
    Bel Air
    The right to keep and bear arms is a Fundamental Right guaranteed and protected (not "granted) by the 2A of the Constitution. I believe there is a reason it came in #2 after Freedom of Speech, because without the populace being well armed, all of the Bill of Rights could be ignored by the well armed government without much trouble. The only requirement for carrying either concealed or open should be holding US citizenship.

    As for training, any responsible person who carries a gun should take it upon themselves to train in the use of the weapon. It is not the responsibility of the State to dictate that. They can play too many games with it. The Government needs a big smackdown in these 2A cases, perhaps it will serve as a small reminder of who should be holding the power in this Country.
     

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