ARE YOU READY FOR OUR RE-FOUND RIGHT?

[krucam]

Personally, I feel we're getting to wrapped up in the axles of how the CCW process should be in our well-intended debate. This process is miniscule to the PR process that will be absolutely necessary with our friends in the Law Enforcement community.

Secondly, as I mentioned a few pages back is the public PR campaign that will be needed. We must paint guns on a womans independence, we must paint it on an elderly person's mobility, we must paint it on the Jim Crow antebellum era of the past.

Finally, we need to start sowing some seeds with a WashPo reporter. Nothing else will suffice.

Fingers-crossed....

 

[Inigoes]

Secondly, as I mentioned a few pages back is the public PR campaign that will be needed. We must paint guns on a womans independence, we must paint it on an elderly person's mobility, we must paint it on the Jim Crow antebellum era of the past.

Mark,

You hit the nail on the head.

No longer can the "vulnerable" be so easy taken by the predators of society. If the youngsters learn to respect their elders, it's worth it.

yes OEH, An armed society is a polite society. Because when bullets start flying, you never which direction they will fly from...

 

[mvee]

The class/video that we had to take to buy a regulated firearm pretty much covers everything needed for concealed carry. If you have a live fire course, the test could be made ridiculous (requiring 50 rounds in a 1 inch target at 100yards), and it could be used to prevent anyone being issued a permit. Conceivable there are people that would carry a gun with a permit, who would not be a great or even a good shot, but they would be safe if they know their limitations. If there is a rash of old ladies getting their purses snatched and their throats cut, a grandmother may be able to safely discharge a round into a perp at point blank range, even though she could not get very many rounds into a target at 35 feet.

 

[foxtrapper]

I don't know if it is an armed society/polite society thing, but I've experienced it, and I have seen numerous others at various gun forums over the years say the same thing. Aside from the obvious MD induced anxieties, I feel less afraid of strange people showing up, such as neighbors having parties and a drunk maybe wanders up here ( hasn't happened, but you never know). When I am in PA, I feel very secure when I am carrying. When I am in MD and cannot carry, such as when I went antler hunting and was all over neighboring properties, I basically was relying on prayer. I got really spooked when I heard someone howling like a wolf on a property I have had permission to be on before, but the old guy who owned it died, yet his name is still on the deed, which to me means he still owns it! Now if someone had come out and told me to get off, I would have, but howling like a wolf, esp when I was going to examine a particularly juicy stone wall ruin, was just plain weird- I don't know if someone saw me when I was coming down the hill, and I could not see who was howling. I scooted right on over to the next property LOL. Now when I was on this other property one of the days, I ran into the owner who is a man of few words and acted like most people in PA do about open carry- he could have cared less if I wanted to walk all over his 104 acres. The few words he said " oh you better get it in now before it gets too warm and stuff".

 

[foxtrapper]

The class/video that we had to take to buy a regulated firearm pretty much covers everything needed for concealed carry. If you have a live fire course, the test could be made ridiculous (requiring 50 rounds in a 1 inch target at 100yards), and it could be used to prevent anyone being issued a permit. Conceivable there are people that would carry a gun with a permit, who would not be a great or even a good shot, but they would be safe if they know their limitations. If there is a rash of old ladies getting their purses snatched and their throats cut, a grandmother may be able to safely discharge a round into a perp at point blank range, even though she could not get very many rounds into a target at 35 feet.

I wonder how many LEO's could get 50 rounds into 1" at 100 yards with a standard handgun? Heck from stuff I hear, there's a bunch of Barney Fifes out there (countrywide) who sound like they are unable to hit a barn door from 50 feet away. I don't know how they pass qualification every 6 months. I can't even get the 25 yard shooting myself, but that is an eyesight issue, and I'm not a LEO, who should have good eyesight to stay on the job. If only someone had taken me under their wing when I was 16 and had 20/10 in both eyes w/out correction. I probably would have been an Annie Oakley once I got over the flinching LOL.

 

[Bart_man]

Finally, we need to start sowing some seeds with a WashPo reporter. Nothing else will suffice.

As a former member of the Media I might be uniquely qualified to bait this hook, but I need the rest of the fishing gear like who would the reporter interview? (not me - job reasons) what kind of illustration could go with such a story.

Actually baiting this hook is easy.
with the massive increase of gun purchases it is too easy to interest a reaction story.

But they will want to talk to people in the gun industry and people like MSI who can speak authoritatively about the industry.

 

[hvymax]

The recent coverage of womens training/social events and groups is a great start. Of course the media is generally against us but every opprotunity to further our cause needs to be taken and maximized. Whenever I find myself in a dicussion of these issues I point out to women how comparatively helpless they could find themselves and how a firearm and training could save them and their families. Other times I find myself pointing out the Jim Crowe origins of gun control and how ironic it is that they would be defending racist policies. I am always ready to present the child safety argument as well. We all need to be prepared show that we are the decent upstanding Americans not the nanny staters who are desperate to protect us from ourselves.

 

[Docster]

This issue, the Pharmacist charged with murder after a robbery attempt, is a good test of pro-gun rights advocates; how one feels about this issue, that is, going back and putting additional bullets into a downed perp, will say alot about how well we respect our own laws.

Granted all the facts are not out, but the video is pretty interesting. Seems that after hitting the perp in the head with a shot then chasing the other perps out of the store, the pharmacist walks past the severely injured perp, retrieves another handgun then (outside of camera range) adds additional shots to the body of the perp as he lays on the floor.

Much of the reading/studying that I've done has indicated that the law is quite clear in that individuals have a right to 'stop/neutralize the threat', not necessarily to kill; the lawyers then strongly recommend the shooter call 911 and render some basic first aid. The legal basis is that the threat is no longer a threat and now the perp has the right to be judged by a jury of his peers as to his guilt and punishment.

This may be a seminal case in defining where the line exists between defense use of a gun and offensive, i.e. murder/manslaughter that us gun owners will have to confront eventually.

--if this pharmacist is found guilty of an 'offensive' use of his weapon (murder or manslaughter) are we going to be willing to accept that there is such a line and that those who cross the line should be punished?

--do we defend every gun use by a legal user regardless of circumstances just because we're for the freedom of self-defense and gun rights?

--do we, as gun owners have additional responsibilities when carrying/using a weapon? If not, should we? (Are we to be held to a higher standard if using potentially deadly force?)

--if indeed the evidence shows that the perp was unconscious and no longer a threat (but still alive), and received 5 more shots to the body that killed him and the pharmacist is found guilty of a crime, are we willing to accept that perhaps a line was crossed?

Please view the video before commenting, and please keep in mind this discussion was started to bring up some things that we all will be facing eventually and should be thinking about this in a way that is consistent with the values of fairness, freedom, responsibility and of course, the law.

 

[Docster]

Boxcab;

My diatribe above was not meant to hijack your great thread, it just seemed like a good add-on to the points you original made.

 

[swinokur]

The biggest argument for not requiring training is right under our noses. MD currently does not require training to be granted a CCW permit. What possible argument could be made that it's now needed? No blood in the streets that I can see. I supose the argument could be made that more CCW permits increase the odds of an incident, but why give MD an opportunity to make the process more difficult than we think it will be anyway?

 

[e40bib]

I would hope that everyone that desires to CCW should continue to have to take a course. It wouldn't solve all problems, but a good background check like Utah's would help weed out those that are gonna be trouble.

Only if everyone has to take a course to exercise their 1st Admendment right also!

 

[krucam]

Lifted from the West Coast, the song remains the same...

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/watermelon4399.jpg
http://olegvolk.net/blog/2011/04/29/compensating-for-somehing/
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/handicapped8619.jpg.html
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/equalizer_8018.jpg.html
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/foot-pounds_4946web.jpg.html

 

[swinokur]

Since MD currently has NO training requirement for the select few who can get a permit, why should the state row be allowed to require training now that we stand on the front doorstep of legal carry?

I agree, you should not be compelled to get trained on a Constitutionally protected right. That opens another can of worms IMO. Don't give Annapolis any more power than they have now. If the privileged few don't need training currently, neither do I. I am responsible enough to make that choice on my own

My .02

 

[Inigoes]

There was a thread a while back, where Glendenning was asked about his training because he had a permit. He said his miliary training was enough.

 

[Trapper]

Lifted from the West Coast, the song remains the same...

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/watermelon4399.jpg
http://olegvolk.net/blog/2011/04/29/compensating-for-somehing/
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/handicapped8619.jpg.html
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/equalizer_8018.jpg.html
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/foot-pounds_4946web.jpg.html

You sir, are an evil, evil man. I spent 2 solid hours looking at those pictures and still didn't get to the end. Noted that Volk is very supportive of "mufflers" (supressors) and trying to remove the tax requirement, I would love to see that cause advanced.

 

[Bohlieve410]

Why require training? It's not like someone with a good enough reason to have a coveted MD permit would do something stupid with it...like take a loaded gun into an airport

I'd like to see some training requirement though...but you know Annapolis..you give an inch, they take 100 miles.

 

[krucam]

You sir, are an evil, evil man. I spent 2 solid hours looking at those pictures and still didn't get to the end. Noted that Volk is very supportive of "mufflers" (supressors) and trying to remove the tax requirement, I would love to see that cause advanced.

Oleg is a friend of the cause in every sense. What he can do with a lens and a one-liner is amazing.

 

[Boxcab]

Billboards or roving truck mounted signs of Oleg's work might be a way to get folks talking.

Finding a gun friendly reporter, that works for a major paper willing to run a gun friendly article, is the proverbial needle in a haystack.

We do need to get the conversation started prior to any ruling by the SCOTUS. Otherwise there will be a recoil reaction by the general population that will be hard to overcome.

 

[Bikebreath]

Why require training? It's not like someone with a good enough reason to have a coveted MD permit would do something stupid with it...like take a loaded gun into an airport

I'd like to see some training requirement though...but you know Annapolis..you give an inch, they take 100 miles.

I would seek additional/special training if my inalienable right was restored.

But...

How much training should be required by the State?

That's the problem. For a completed knob, (what I was 2 yrs ago), it seems close to 2 years to be adequate. Maybe I'm a slow learner, still, there's seasoned gun owners on this board who have said they are terrible with a handgun. Someone brand new to firearms has many hurdles. Do they get less choices of protection because they are knobs? I don't think so and when you factor in giving gov'ment an inch...

 

[Revvin' Evan]

Finding a gun friendly reporter, that works for a major paper willing to run a gun friendly article, is the proverbial needle in a haystack.

I know he doesn't work for a newspaper but reporter Lowell Melser of WBAL11 is very pro-2A. He does the news on the 98rock morning show from time to time and on more than one occasion he has expressed his frustration with MD's handgun permit system and how he wants a permit to carry but didn't bother to apply for obvious reasons.

Here's his bio and contact info.
http://www.wbaltv.com/station/3754733/detail.html