Are dealers ripping us off on transfer fees?

[reckless1911]

Just got back from filling out all the paperwork for a transfer at Worth A Shot and the cost was $75 xfer fee + $10 MSP fee. They are doing 14 day release provided you've bought a gun before in Maryland and have the pink copy from that sale or you can provide a copy of your Designated Collector letter if you have one. It was a quick and easy process with no stress and the shop was ran by all woman who were pleasant to talk to so that was a bonus! In addition they are also a Glock Blue Label dealer.

yea that would not be a good deal for me cause im transferring a $85 lower

 

[fabsroman]

I cant answer for other shops because I dont know what they pay for the following:


Attorney Consultation/Retainers
Income/Business/Property Taxes
Rent/Property
Safes/Secure Storage
Data/Paperwork Backup
Labor Costs
Bank Loans
Insurance
Medical Insurance/Unemployment/Disability/Benefits
Utilities
Supplies
Advertising
Business Licenses
Business Services


To claim a business is price is gouging without knowing a business owners expenses/investment is unfair and dishonest to the core.

I am not going to argue about what dealers are charging for transfers. I believe in supply and demand and them making money while they can.

Is there something called gouging? Yes there is. When somebody is selling water at $25 a gallon in a hurricane ravaged area, that is gouging. I believe it is actually illegal. Now, is raising the transfer fees or the price of guns gouging, nope. Almost nobody actually NEEDS those items, especially if they already have a gun.

Now, let's be somewhat fair about dealer costs. Most of the costs you listed are direct costs. Meaning they are static and neither increase nor decrease if the dealer does 1 transfer or 1,000,000 transfers. A lot of them are completely irrelevant too. The entire income tax cost is laughable. I have a solution for that cost. Break even and the cost goes away.

Hiring more people to hand the volume is also laughable. The additional volume should easily pay for the new employees.

I am sure there are some additional expenses that dealers are incurring because of this rush on guns and transfers, but let's at least try to be intelligent in justifying the increased transfer costs. Me, I would lean more toward "Dealers are making a buck while they can".

Other things to take into account are the increased risks that 8 day release dealers are taking. They should make more money for the additional risk they are taking. However, unless they rented more space because of all this, rent is exactly what it was before the increase in gun sales and transfers.

New safe, attorney's fees to deal with the SB281 fiasco, increased property liability insurance premium for increased inventory on hand, loan interest if most of their inventory is financed and they are not releasing after 8 days, and some other costs are legit, but most of the above list is simply direct/fixed costs that do not really vary one bit based upon volume.

Did I mention that I am fine with the increased transfer fee? Looking at it from a dealer's perspective, a dealer needs to make enough now and bank it to make it through the lean months ahead come October 1, 2013. Of course, consumers are only thinking about their wallet and the very short term. Then, in a year from now they will want to know where all the dealers have gone and why they have to drive over an hour to look at a gun and transfers are now $100 per gun by the two dealers left in the state.

 

[Docster]

I'm not sure whom you're referring to, but I suggest you go back and read my initial post on this thread.

I never used the term "profiteering", but I did use the term "gouging", and I stand by that term in the specific situation I described. (My local dealer has not bought any new safes, and has not experienced any increase in the cost of handling transfers. They raised the price of a transfer -- significantly -- simply because they can.)

Furthermore, while one of my reasons for starting the thread was to point out what I consider to be an unwarranted increase in transfer fees, I also asked if someone could recommend a dealer who would handle a handgun transfer without gouging. Several posters made excellent suggestions, and I got several Private Messages as well.

I agree with you: If you don't like the price of something, shop around for a better deal. That's exactly what I did with this thread. Why do you have a problem with that?

And while you're suggesting that others look up the real definition of a given word, you might to follow that advice yourself: Nothing on here that I or anyone else has posted meets the definition of "whining"...

I re-read your original post and stand by my comments; this was whining about $75 transfer fees and it's NOT price gouging or profiteering which are similar. All the IP's list their prices for transfers if you want to support them. The problem I have is the hundreds of threads started just to complain and get someone else to find an answer when there's hundreds of threads with answers to those same complaints.....

 

[ted70]

Bart's in glen Burnie. Cheap transfers and 8 day release

Plus one..

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

I cant answer for other shops because I dont know what they pay for the following:


Attorney Consultation/Retainers
Income/Business/Property Taxes
Rent/Property
Safes/Secure Storage
Data/Paperwork Backup
Labor Costs
Bank Loans
Insurance
Medical Insurance/Unemployment/Disability/Benefits
Utilities
Supplies
Advertising
Business Licenses
Business Services


To claim a business is price is gouging without knowing a business owners expenses/investment is unfair and dishonest to the core.

And doubling transfer fees over night wasn't?

 

[Kilroy]

In actual free states, $25 transfers aren't hard to find, so I'm going to go with yes.

 

[clandestine]

And doubling transfer fees over night wasn't?

Who are you referring to?

I don't do transfers. Scotts Transfer Fees didn't go up he always had a transfer fee on the higher end of the spectrum. He had policies about what he would transfer WAY before December 2012. Scott only stopped doing transfers when he ran out of room.

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

Who are you referring to?

I don't do transfers. Scotts Transfer Fees didn't go up he always had a transfer fee on the higher end of the spectrum. He had policies about what he would transfer WAY before December 2012. Scott only stopped doing transfers when he ran out of room.

I'm not talking about Scott's as I don't know what his were or became, but at the same time the craziness start I Was calling and getting prices for a transfer. I found that at least two that I called that had prices posted on here gave me prices that were nearly double when I called.
A lot of them raised over night man. I see you talk all about the over head and all the things they pay for. ..We know they have a lot to pay fr but I'm sure they are making that up with the now $50-75 bricks of .22lr and everything else they raised. ( stuff they already had n stock and raised to crazy prices cause they could not cause they are now paying more assuming they are)
I don't want to hear ******** excuses. Say it like it is.. Supply and demand. They have it, we don't so the can charge what they want. But still for the shops now charging $60-100 or more for a regulated transfer. You can kiss my ass. I'll drive to a shop farther..just to not give you my money.

 

[Doctor_M]

Overhead actually costs something. Start your own shop and set your own prices.

Your topic would collect better responses if you simply said you cant justify or afford paying the higher Transfer Fees and want imput on more budget minded locations. List what you feel is fair and see if anyone offers that price.


No such thing as Gouging.

While I agree with the first part of your response... "No such thing as gouging"?? Really??? There most certainly is. Not saying this is the case here. But gougers do exist. Let them; that's fine. Let shops charge what they want... there are other dealers who want the business. I've given up on two shops that I have been a loyal customer at for years because of high fees and their decision to hold until ND paperwork comes in. That's my choice. The dealer I'm using now appreciates the revenue he's getting that would have gone to his competitors. Free market... game on.

 

[fred2207]

Originally Posted by clandestine
I cant answer for other shops because I dont know what they pay for the following:


Attorney Consultation/Retainers
Income/Business/Property Taxes
Rent/Property
Safes/Secure Storage
Data/Paperwork Backup
Labor Costs
Bank Loans
Insurance
Medical Insurance/Unemployment/Disability/Benefits
Utilities
Supplies
Advertising
Business Licenses
Business Services


To claim a business is price is gouging without knowing a business owners expenses/investment is unfair and dishonest to the core.

And doubling transfer fees over night wasn't?

Walks like a duck--quacks like a duck, must be a f#%@ing duck. I learned a long time ago, "the difference between someone pissing on my leg and trying to tell me its rain and the real thing". In those cases, I vote with my money elseware...

 

[rwbow1969]

Regulated firearm transfer $25- $35 in the western part of the state. If someone doesn't like the fee, there's no one holding a gun to your head making you pay it. Shop somewhere else. Not that complicated.

 

[JohnnyE]

Regulated firearm transfer $25- $35 in the western part of the state. If someone doesn't like the fee, there's no one holding a gun to your head making you pay it. Shop somewhere else. Not that complicated.

^^^This.

I think this forum leans more toward market-based capitalists then command and control socialists. With that in mind, most of us know that if too many dealers raise transfer prices too high, other dealers, the smart ones, the capitalists, will see this as an opportuity to under cut the "gougers" and pick up a whole lot of new business, and make more money based on volume. The market does not react instantly or smoothly, but it does react. If I need a transfer NOW, then I'll have to pay. Reminds me of the old adage about the customer who wants everything good, fast and cheap. He can get any two out of these three!

 

[ShoreShooter]

The real injury is the sum total of what we Marylanders go through to buy a regulated gun.

Because of the mad rush before 10/1, dealer inventory is limited. You hunt and hunt to find what you want, find something close to what you want but not quite and then have to decide if "close" is "good enough".

If the gun is sold by a dealer with poor service, or who does not work within some version of an 8 day release, then you have the added decision to buy what you want with a very extended wait, and still pay them a somewhat inflated price, just because they feel they can.

Or, you can go online and locate exactly what you want and have it shipped to a FFL.

So then you have shipping cost. Then you have the FFL fees on top of that. Then you have FFL's who either won't release early, or some do something early but go on a 4 or 5 week turnaround instead of closer to 8 days.

There is a big difference in perceived outcome on using a FFL depending on what you are buying. If you are buying a $1,000 item, a $50 or $75 FFL fee does not feel TOO bad.

But on the other hand, if you are buying something less expensive, like a $350 LCP for example, shipping plus $75 adds a bigger percentage to the total.

I understand dealers are charging for their liability. We the buyer also understand we are paying a significant markup on what we are buying via the FFL fee.

We have a choice to not play. But its a royal pain to have to make that choice in MD.

 

[fabsroman]

You know what I want to know, how many people are complaining about the transfer fee, lack of inventory, etc. in this thread, but did not vote in the last election and/or donate any time/money to an organization that fights for our 2nd Amendment Rights.

My personal feelings are that if you have done nothing to help defend the 2nd Amendment in the past, you have no right to complain about transfer fees, exorbitant prices at dealers, lack of inventory, 4 to 5 week or 100+ day releases, etc. No room to complain at all at this time. Thing is, none of us really know who has done what to support the 2nd Amendment.

 

[fabsroman]

I'm not talking about Scott's as I don't know what his were or became, but at the same time the craziness start I Was calling and getting prices for a transfer. I found that at least two that I called that had prices posted on here gave me prices that were nearly double when I called.
A lot of them raised over night man. I see you talk all about the over head and all the things they pay for. ..We know they have a lot to pay fr but I'm sure they are making that up with the now $50-75 bricks of .22lr and everything else they raised. ( stuff they already had n stock and raised to crazy prices cause they could not cause they are now paying more assuming they are)
I don't want to hear ******** excuses. Say it like it is.. Supply and demand. They have it, we don't so the can charge what they want. But still for the shops now charging $60-100 or more for a regulated transfer. You can kiss my ass. I'll drive to a shop farther..just to not give you my money.

The amount of crying in this thread is insane. How many people were spending their hard earned money on ammo at the dealer when the stuff was freely on the shelves. NOBODY Why is that? Because they did not want to have their hard earned cash tied up in ammo when they could use it elsewhere.

Me, I failed to buy a lot of the guns I wanted because I wrongly assumed that they would be available whenever I wanted them. So, in February I paid close to 300% of pre-crazy retail price for a RRA lower. Focused on some handguns after that. Then bought some more lowers at somewhat normal prices.

Thing is, nobody really wants to look at the dealers' side of this issue. How many people are going to be going out and buying stuff after October 1, 2013?

How many of you are crying for the families of dealers that might not weather the storm after SB281 is in force? Is there a collection plate for those dealers that will need to look for a new line of work?

Nah, the only thing that most people want to do is complain about their situation without looking at the situation of others.

Voting with your wallet is a great idea. One that I really like myself. Question is, did you vote at the polls, and if so, how did you vote (i.e., pro 2nd Amendment)?

I really have a bug you know where after the SB281 hearings where it was pointed out that 40% of the people speaking against SB281 were NOT registered to vote. I am willing to bet that percentage applies to even more 2nd Amendment "supporters" that did not even show up in Annapolis for SB281.

 

[pleasant1911]

My brother is dealing with this guy around laurel area, that is charging like 50 bucks. Thats not bad at all. spend fifty to save hundreds. You gotta pay, they got to eat too. anybody complaining, should get a license and do it for free of charge.

 

[ShoreShooter]

You know what I want to know, how many people are complaining about the transfer fee, lack of inventory, etc. in this thread, but did not vote in the last election and/or donate any time/money to an organization that fights for our 2nd Amendment Rights.

My personal feelings are that if you have done nothing to help defend the 2nd Amendment in the past, you have no right to complain about transfer fees, exorbitant prices at dealers, lack of inventory, 4 to 5 week or 100+ day releases, etc. No room to complain at all at this time. Thing is, none of us really know who has done what to support the 2nd Amendment.

For what its worth, I've done my share, and more.

We don't need to be launching on each other.

 

[Billcw]

For what its worth, I've done my share, and more.

We don't need to be launching on each other.

Your right but we do not need to be jumping on the dealers either who were also there in Annapolis with us .

 

[fabsroman]

For what its worth, I've done my share, and more.

We don't need to be launching on each other.

And we sure as hell do not need to be launching on dealers charging whatever they can before the door on their business closes come October 1, 2013.

Sales will dry up on October 1, 2013, yet they will probably still be dealing with a paperwork headache and all their fixed costs.

The only issue I have with dealers are those that are not doing something close to 8 day release yet were paid in full or required a deposit back before the MSP confirmed that 8 day release was lawful. The specifics go a little deeper than that (e.g., no notification to the customer that a ND was required before release, no refund policy). Those are the only dealers I have an issue with. Otherwise, it is a free market and everybody can go and buy wherever they want.

For those of us that did not buy the guns we wanted pre SB281 and/or have ammo stocked up to a degree, we now get to pay for it.

Be happy for the internet and the ability to buy guns on the internet now at pre-panic prices that you simply cannot find in the state of Maryland, much less at a dealer close to you in Maryland.

Next thing you know, people without the internet or a computer will be complaining that they cannot take advantage of gunbroker.com, gunsamerica, etc. and it is just another conspiracy against the people.

For the most part, our ire needs to be directed at the politicians and the powers that be. It does not need to be directed at the dealers that are scrambling to figure out how they are going to survive post SB281. They might have to start selling baked goods and espresso to make ends meet after October 1, 2013.

 

[ShoreShooter]

And we sure as hell do not need to be launching on dealers charging whatever they can before the door on their business closes come October 1, 2013.

Sales will dry up on October 1, 2013, yet they will probably still be dealing with a paperwork headache and all their fixed costs.

The only issue I have with dealers are those that are not doing something close to 8 day release yet were paid in full or required a deposit back before the MSP confirmed that 8 day release was lawful. The specifics go a little deeper than that (e.g., no notification to the customer that a ND was required before release, no refund policy). Those are the only dealers I have an issue with. Otherwise, it is a free market and everybody can go and buy wherever they want.

For those of us that did not buy the guns we wanted pre SB281 and/or have ammo stocked up to a degree, we now get to pay for it.

Be happy for the internet and the ability to buy guns on the internet now at pre-panic prices that you simply cannot find in the state of Maryland, much less at a dealer close to you in Maryland.

Next thing you know, people without the internet or a computer will be complaining that they cannot take advantage of gunbroker.com, gunsamerica, etc. and it is just another conspiracy against the people.

For the most part, our ire needs to be directed at the politicians and the powers that be. It does not need to be directed at the dealers that are scrambling to figure out how they are going to survive post SB281. They might have to start selling baked goods and espresso to make ends meet after October 1, 2013.

You were right the first time. You really do not know what posters here have done to support 2A and / or conservative issues in general, conservative legislators locally in MD or more broadly national.

You do not know what has been spent with local dealers, even when other options were somewhat preferable.

You do not know what posters here do to support local small business in general, not JUST gun dealers.

So with all due respect, I do not need to be taken to school on this topic, by someone who does not know me, does not know what I have done and am doing, who does not know what I have spent and donated.

And there are a wide variety of ways to provide support. MSI is merely one, and for what it is worth MSI has been to date one of the more difficult ones to try to support. MSI has done some great work in the trenches. I respect what they do. I will support them ALSO when certain things are in order, and until then I will CONTINUE my support in other camps.

It is one thing to plead for support. To request support. To use opportunities to show why support would solve stated problems. It is quite another to demand it in a scolding tone. If you go back to my post you will see the thrust of it, the intent of it, was to discuss the difficulties with the entire process we in MD face. I did not launch on dealers per se, and certainly had no reason to do that. I did not launch on any dealer in particular. If we Marylanders were not so frustrated with the entire transfer process, from beginning to end, this thread would not exist.

There was an opportunity to point out that the frustrating process has been one focus of MSI and others, but they need our support. An ask. Sadly, that opportunity was missed.

I respect the work you personally have done. Please respect me and mine.

If you want to take this offline, please PM me.