AR15 Optics Thread

[SCARCQB]

This is a picture that will give clandestine a serious heartburn... Two of his least favorite things, Can you name them?

and " Pat Rogers is a Mall Ninja" Yup, I went there....

 

[SCARCQB]

But seriously, No one is disputing that an Aimpoint is extremely reliable, durable and will most likely survive re-entry when dropped from the space shuttle( and maintain zero).

But dismounting your RDO ( Insert brand here_____) throwing it across the room, maybe across the parking lot, changing your mind, re-mounting it on your weapon, then dropping your weapon with the RDO smacking the ground.... Is extremely STUPID. That deserves a court martial or a court order preventing who ever does that from ever owning a firearm. You will not do that with a standard scope, say like a Leupold or a DMS-1... No one disputes that those are good optics... Pat Rogers do his tantrum test on those? Have you seen any professional do that kind of abuse in real life. If you are that clumsy, It does not matter what kind of RDO set-up you use... chances are you are going to die early. Anything made out of glass, aluminum tubes and batteries should be handled as such. Also, assuming that since I do not subject my gear to the tantrum test makes me inexperienced, makes my adversary underestimate my capabilities... that is a win on my part.

I drive a Honda Civic to work everyday. It is extremely reliable , dependable, gets 32 mpg and starts everytime. I have over 180K miles on it.( Aimpoint) 0-60 in about 8 seconds.

On the other hand, a Ford Mustang, with a V8 engine.. It is big, eats a lot of gas, not as reliable as my Honda. ( Eotech) but accelerates from 0-60 in about 5 seconds

Which car would you drive if there is a need for speed? When speed dictates who wins, and milliseconds count. I would take the gas guzzling Mustang over the Honda Civic anytime. ( Most gunfights that you or I will ever encounter will not last more than 30 seconds)

Now, If one is to get stuck in traffic for a prolonged period of time. Lots of stressful but otherwise idle time. The occasional need to accelerate.... The Honda civic excels in that. ( like how many civies like you and I expect to do patrols, recon missions that last for days, unsupplied?)

Most of us class ourselves in the same level as TRUE OPERATORS...In harms way. You have to stop believing in your own lies, as that makes you delusional. Most RDO that people own here will get to punch paper most of the time and see the occasional " Tactical Carbine Class". And I would bet, No one has done the " Pat Rogers tantrum/ drop test " on their own equipment. And if you did...remind me to put on body armor before getting near you.

As for Trijicons... they are excellent sights for medium distances, but gets effed up in CQB applications. Try that BINDON aiming concept in low light or when using night vision. To overcome that shortfall, Just piggy bach an RMR , docter or jpoint on top of it. I 'd like to see Pat Rogers tantrum/ drop test that rig.

Take way is. I hope not everyone switches to an Eotech... I encourage most to buy an Aimpoint or some other brand. This is selfish as I want to keep the advantage to myself. As the old saying goes" if you fight fair in a gunfight, there is something effin wrong with your tactics"

Below:
Eotech with a bullet hole on the Lens. It still works... Has anyone tried that with an Aimpoint? ( Paging Pat Rogers) and " NO" the Cobra Sniper that Carlos Hathcock shot through the scope wasn't using an Eotech.

 

[Russ D]

If EO's were so fast guys would be shooting them in 3-gun.

 

[SCARCQB]

If EO's were so fast guys would be shooting them in 3-gun.

These" misinformed" guys do ( 3-gun)
M14, M240 and Barrett 50

Hitron Snipers... Shooting at moving targets from a moving position is just plain AWESOME.

 

[Calengor]

Some people are faster with eos and some are faster with aimpoints, you can't definitively claim it either way, really. I would bet it has more to do with what each individual has more practice with.

 

[SCARCQB]

Some people are faster with eos and some are faster with aimpoints, you can't definitively claim it either way, really. I would bet it has more to do with what each individual has more practice with.

I have an Eotech and an Aimpoint mounted on a Identical Colt LE6920's.
I have first time AR-15 shooters try them out and compare. The Eotech is always faster. A 65MOA Reticle is simply faster to acquire than a 3 Moa Dot.

Below:
More mis-informed Mall-Ninja's , Including the Israeli Special forces

 

[JMintzer]

Scar,

Give it up already. It's obvious that you're just an EOTech fanboi...


Jamie

P.S. Your post (3-4 posts up) is "spot on"!

P.P.S. I'm continually puzzled by those who always seem to have the need to "prove someone wrong". How can a personal choice on a piece of gear be "wrong"? If it works for you, it works for you. Case closed...

 

[SCARCQB]

Scar,

Give it up already. It's obvious that you're just an EOTech fanboi...

Damn.... It's that obvious huh?

I can't argue with science. I have conducted my own experiments ( Yes, I am a Biomedical Engineer and extremely fascinated with Ergonomics and bio-mechanical stuff. All day... I work with Engineering issues that relate to medical, mechanical, Human-machine interface. It is in my job to figure out how people respond to engineered stuff) Its as simple as: when speed counts, a big dot is easier to see than a small dot.

When it comes to reticles... Eotech has a big lead over the Aimpoint's Hooohummm Dot. The Circle dot aka donut of death is standard even on other makes ( Leupold, Millet, trijicon,Leatherwood, S&B Etc.)Because it is FAST and effective. The big circle gets you on target fast and the 1 moa center allows for more accurate shots. Other choices are reticles with BDC that extend the versatility of the sight. If Aimpoint came out with a Circle/dot reticle. I will throw my eotechs across the room, parking lot and let a fat lady stomp on them. Because an Aimpoint with a Circle Dot reticle will be the perfect RDO sight... And I have to upgrade to that.

 

[Russ D]

I have nothing against Eo's, I'm just saying that if they were a speed advantage then you would see the majority of guys at 3gun using them. I'm sure some people are faster with them, but if you are moving your head first and then bringing the rifle to target like you should then it really doesn't matter. The rifle is on target when it comes up. you dont search for the target in the eyebox cuz it's already there.

 

[SCARCQB]

I have nothing against Eo's, I'm just saying that if they were a speed advantage then you would see the majority of guys at 3gun using them. I'm sure some people are faster with them, but if you are moving your head first and then bringing the rifle to target like you should then it really doesn't matter. The rifle is on target when it comes up. you dont search for the target in the eyebox cuz it's already there.

What I see is that most Old school guys... look down on guys that use Eotechs.Peer pressure sucks, especially when you're older.This is why Aimpoint is the standard in that realm. But it does not represent real world situations. It is human nature to fear Change.It is hard to fornicate with established doctrine. Most of these folks also used to badmouth the M16 , the 5.56 round and the Plastic Glocks. I'm willing to bet you 10 bucks that these folks also order the same value meal at McDonalds everytime. You buck the system by introducing new ideas...It regresses into the customary, to be expected, traditional and predictable" Pecker Check" routine.


BTW Russ... You watching " SHARK WEEK" on cable?

 

[JeepDriver]

Eotech guys are like 1911 guys. They will defend their chosen product to the end.

Can we have a 9 vs 45 thread now, maybe followed by Glock vs all other guns ever made.

 

[SCARCQB]

Eotech guys are like 1911 guys. They will defend their chosen product to the end.

Can we have a 9 vs 45 thread now, maybe followed by Glock vs all other guns ever made.

Fix.... bayonets!

 

[BenL]

If you wanna fo it right the first time then get the Nighforce 1-4x or the S@B Speed dot 1-4x, but both will cost more than your rifle did.

Don't forget the best one: U.S. Optics!

But dismounting your RDO ( Insert brand here_____) throwing it across the room, maybe across the parking lot, changing your mind, re-mounting it on your weapon, then dropping your weapon with the RDO smacking the ground.... Is extremely STUPID. That deserves a court martial or a court order preventing who ever does that from ever owning a firearm. You will not do that with a standard scope, say like a Leupold or a DMS-1... No one disputes that those are good optics... Pat Rogers do his tantrum test on those? Have you seen any professional do that kind of abuse in real life.

[YT]88ewpwPTA6Q[/YT]

 

[JeepDriver]

I'm sure they were mentioned, but the Trijicon and Burris offer quality 1-4 optics. I have the TR24 from Trijicon, very nice optic. Under $1000 with the mount from LaRue. I think the Burris is around $800 with the mount.

 

[Norton]

I'm sure they were mentioned, but the Trijicon and Burris offer quality 1-4 optics. I have the TR24 from Trijicon, very nice optic. Under $1000 with the mount from LaRue. I think the Burris is around $800 with the mount.

chad, would that set up work out OK on an FAL?

 

[JeepDriver]

chad, would that set up work out OK on an FAL?

You are welcome to borrow the optic and mount to try it out. I can send it to you we can meet up.

 

[Norton]

You are welcome to borrow the optic and mount to try it out. I can send it to you we can meet up.

groovy....there's so many good options in that class of optics any more it's difficult to decide.

 

[haoleboy]

I'm leaning towards this for my 16" AR. Just shy of $900 from SWFA.

 

[haoleboy]

BTW, any of the Aimpoint junkies that want to test the durability of their optics.....let me know at the next DelMarVa shoot. I'd be more than happy to walk out to the street and hurl it across Rt. 50.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

chad, would that set up work out OK on an FAL?

Don't see why it wouldn't. I'm running an ACOG on my L1A1. DSA makes a decent railed receiver cover that takes about 10 min to swap out.

I'll bring it up this weekend if you want to take a look.