An Open Letter to Some of You...

[Robert]

Ummmm... Just how damned fair is it for the Maryland businesses to have to compete with ALL of the surrounding FREE and fair market states?

Think about it for a few minutes... There is a state line and when folks cross it... they find deals and products that Maryland Dealers CAN NOT OFFER!

So please tell me again how fair this market is? It is not like the alcohol businesses that are making money here because they have a LAW that says folks MUST buy their booze in Maryland so that the TAX gets paid.

With the exception of MAGS, (because we cant bring banned guns into the state ) what budget busting products can't MD dealers sell ?

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[Robert]

Without getting into the barbs, we've already begun (oh... and it goes back almost 150 years).

IMO, we are a solid 3 years in, and making exponential progress each year, due to folks who are digging in, recruiting others, and causing noise.

This year will be huge. But you might have heard something about that. As long as you--and everyone else you can bring--is involved in the process, we're good.

The 2014 GA session may not "solve" it... but it will certainly set the stage for a changeover in the coming elections, and 2015 will flip the rock.

As for the entry fees? I personally appreciate that you'd rather route them to MSI. But were you aware that both Silverado and Appalachian are sending a portion of their gate to the orgs involved in litigation against FSA13??

As I've said many times, I love your optimism. Although I have a feeling you will be in Illinois long before that.

And Yes I'm aware, but a portion isn't good enough for me.

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[RoadDawg]

With the exception of MAGS, (because we cant bring banned guns into the state ) what budget busting products can't MD dealers sell ?

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The list is a long one for now.
-Every thing on the list of banned firearms. To include all non HBAR ARs and any AK and many others that can be sold to non Martylanistaners.
-All mags over ten rounds.
-Any regulated firearm to the hoardes of folks who do not have their HQLs yet.

You know... The goodies that folks are out hunting for...

Are you really trying to say that the market in Maryland is fair to the dealers here? I think they might have a different opinion of that for you.

 

[Robert]

The list is a long one for now.
-Every thing on the list of banned firearms. To include all non HBAR ARs and any AK and many others that can be sold to non Martylanistaners.
-All mags over ten rounds.
-Any regulated firearm to the hoardes of folks who do not have their HQLs yet.

You know... The goodies that folks are out hunting for...

Are you really trying to say that the market in Maryland is fair to the dealers here? I think they might have a different opinion of that for you.

There maybe some confusion:

I thought this entire thread was about MARYLAND gun shows (and maybe LGS') for MARYLAND residence. So within that scope, (with the exception of MAGS), is the business market for MARYLAND Gun shops and residences. Within that market it would be considered Free, because the MD Government is not picking who wins or looses within that Eco-system.

What I'm saying is we can't buy any banned firearms from anyone, because we live in MD. So Marylanders business are not competing AT ALL. (I could be wrong, but aren't they (one of the classes) still able to sell out of state?)

What I'm saying is EVERYONE that's not exempt MUST have an HQL in order to purchase a non banned pistol in MD. So MD FFL's are not completing AT ALL. (I could be wrong, but aren't they (one of the classes) still able to sell out of state?)

I specifically asked you to name budget busting items with the exception of MAGS (Which I will agree is the one item I know of that can be purchased out of state and brought in that can't be purchases in MD) and Banned firearms (because you CAN'T make the purchase out of state and bring it in).

I'm not saying the Maryland Government is making it easy on FFL's, but the Maryland Government isn't making it easy for ANY small business.

It's like any other small business, if you can't compete you need to either make adjustments to be competative or reinvent. It happens to thousands of bussiness all year long in MD, they all have their problems.

 

[Blaster229]

Grits........ salt, pepper & butter or sugar and syrup?

 

[DanGuy48]

Here's the real problem, or a huge portion of it. Look at the 2010 population of PG, Montgomery and Baltimore counties compared to the rest of the state. Those 3 counties, added to the fact that the state as a whole is more liberal than most, and we (those of us who respect the constitution) have little influence.

http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/01glance/html/pop.html

 

[Biggfoot44]

I like gun shows. Even severely mediocre gun shows are more interesting than no gun show. I go to find the interesting , unusual , and obscure. Just spending a cpl hours in the company of fellow gun people is a good thing.

That said , if your primary object is to get rock bottom prices on current production , high demand common items , stay home and surf the 'net.

 

[Pinecone]

I go to gun shows. I see things over priced, and I see things are reasonable prices.

No, it is not like the old days of great deals, but that is true with many markets, as the internet has allowed people to buy from places with little overhead and a nationwide market, who can always undercut the local store with a brick and mortar location.

But if you don't go to shows at all, the dealers do not learn their prices are two high. Also, many dealers will DEAL if you talk to them. But go, tell the dealer with $200 Mosins that the price is too high, then offer a REASONABLE price, and buy it he will work with you.

As for HQL, on of the finger printing organizations (Pinkertons??? or similar) was doing HQL finger printing at the show. It they were REALLY smart, they would have had some terminals with internet access for people to sit down right after fingerprinting and apply for the HQL.

HELP get the people the tools they need to buy and become a supporter.

Maybe some of the instructors here can offer to do a 1 - 2 hour intro course at some of the shows. Talk about MD laws, type of pistols, basic safety.

If I can ever get hold the NRA to renew my instructor credentials, I would volunteer time to do this.

 

[jpo183]

Mr. H has a good argument however I disagree with it

1) Many small business owners that get into business with a hobby they love (and even when it isnt a hobby) do not understand business and many of the statements made about table fees, etc reflect that.

Business owners should be looking at table fees as "advertisement". We sponsor seminars and the overriding factor is cost of said advertisement/event vs the amount of exposure we get. Just because we don't get a sale at an event means we do not get value.


2) Attendance is a reflection on value, plain and simple. If value, whether quantity, type of items or pricing of said value is lacking the event suffers as a whole because it is not seen as value.

There have been many studies to show the price point of where "value" is not a consideration, but at a gun show you have an "entrance fee" first. This makes value a priority or something viewed.

EDIT: Value is not seen as important when you have the ability to hide the non valuable purchase / decision . It does not have to do with the $$$ amount but it has to do with the perception of others. So if you go to the show and you return, your wife asks "how was it" If you reply "it sucked" or she asks "why so quick" the person realizes the value lost. It isnt like a bad knife you can throw away and no one knows. That is why in business purchases a small $$ purchase seen by the entire company is considered an "important purchase"

As many have said they would go to the event if there was better value.

3) Mopar mentioned "buying and reselling". This is great for some but not others. Many people do not necessarily want to buy for an investment or hold until they can resell.

4) My prime reason for not going to MD shows as of lately is because I have a preconcieved perception of price gouging (look at .22 ammo prices for example) When you have to pay to get in and then get gouged at prices it is not a fun experience anymore.

There really is only one option for MD Gun Shows going forward: lower the entrance fee. This will attract more people because they will spend the money to just show up and peruse and vendors need to stop price gauging.

Since MD gun venders have already been hit by the MD Leg Bat, they cannot offer the items that most of us need (mags,etc) . That is why I am a proponent of the fix mentioned. It will keep bringing people over the long haul.

 

[pbharvey]

Grits........ salt, pepper & butter or sugar and syrup?

What's wrong with you?
You need two eggs over easy and a piece of scrapple dropped in that bowl.
Chop it all up until you have a delicious bowl of breakfast stew.
The sweetness you crave needs to come from the two slices of toast with grape jam or strawberry preserves that should be sitting next to the bowl.
Honestly I thought you knew better....

 

[eruby]

Grits........ salt, pepper & butter or sugar and syrup?

What's wrong with you?
You need two eggs over easy and a piece of scrapple dropped in that bowl.
Chop it all up until you have a delicious bowl of breakfast stew.
The sweetness you crave needs to come from the two slices of toast with grape jam or strawberry preserves that should be sitting next to the bowl.
Honestly I thought you knew better....

Yowza.

Even northern yankee Hebes like me know that.

Unless you're making those magic grits, cooked in 10 - 15 minutes where the laws of physics no longer apply.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Once again, I hear JPO. But the catch is that the vendors have no control over admission prices, and promotors have no control over mdse prices , and only very vague control over the mdse displayed. If one or the other is totally loosing their shirt, there will be eventual reactions of some sort, but the feedback loop is very indirect.

 

[Onwrd Farm]

Mr. H has a good argument however I disagree with it

1) Many small business owners that get into business with a hobby they love (and even when it isnt a hobby) do not understand business and many of the statements made about table fees, etc reflect that.

Business owners should be looking at table fees as "advertisement". We sponsor seminars and the overriding factor is cost of said advertisement/event vs the amount of exposure we get. Just because we don't get a sale at an event means we do not get value.


2) Attendance is a reflection on value, plain and simple. If value, whether quantity, type of items or pricing of said value is lacking the event suffers as a whole because it is not seen as value.

There have been many studies to show the price point of where "value" is not a consideration, but at a gun show you have an "entrance fee" first. This makes value a priority or something viewed.

EDIT: Value is not seen as important when you have the ability to hide the non valuable purchase / decision . It does not have to do with the $$$ amount but it has to do with the perception of others. So if you go to the show and you return, your wife asks "how was it" If you reply "it sucked" or she asks "why so quick" the person realizes the value lost. It isnt like a bad knife you can throw away and no one knows. That is why in business purchases a small $$ purchase seen by the entire company is considered an "important purchase"

As many have said they would go to the event if there was better value.

3) Mopar mentioned "buying and reselling". This is great for some but not others. Many people do not necessarily want to buy for an investment or hold until they can resell.

4) My prime reason for not going to MD shows as of lately is because I have a preconcieved perception of price gouging (look at .22 ammo prices for example) When you have to pay to get in and then get gouged at prices it is not a fun experience anymore.

There really is only one option for MD Gun Shows going forward: lower the entrance fee. This will attract more people because they will spend the money to just show up and peruse and vendors need to stop price gauging.

Since MD gun venders have already been hit by the MD Leg Bat, they cannot offer the items that most of us need (mags,etc) . That is why I am a proponent of the fix mentioned. It will keep bringing people over the long haul.

spot on

 

[janklow]

3) Mopar mentioned "buying and reselling". This is great for some but not others. Many people do not necessarily want to buy for an investment or hold until they can resell.

see, this is a good point: i'm not personally horribly disappointed in MD gun shows (it is what it is), but i'm not going to them to look to buy to resell, so i can't relate to this as a reason to be attending. and i'm sure more people are inclined to try and find a good price on something to shoot as opposed to looking for investments.

 

[Vile Shadow]

First one is on me...

Sounds good... but then I gotta run.

Name a time and place and I'll buy the first round.

 

[kingfish]

I think some people here are looking at maryland gunshows with visors on. I've been to plenty of pa, va and other far away gun shows because I like to look at guns and gun accessories. Shows are a place where you can actually hold something and inspect it. And I've seen plenty of out of state shows with really high prices here and there. There are always going to be dealers who think their inventory is "priceless" and there are going to be some who want to really move their product and price it reasonably. We call this capitalism and it happens everywhere I've been to some gun shops in New Mexico where the average salarie is about half that of MD, and the prices where rediculous. I really think if you explore throughout the country you'll see MD isn't a whole lot different I enjoy gunshows and it would be a shame to see them go. I can already think of the old Annapolis show which was decent that is no more. The pg show is gone. Pikesville, gone. Good or bad, you have the choice to buy or not to buy.

 

[HeatSeeker]

I don't think ANY gunshow sucks. I have been to movies that suck. I have been to ball games that suck. I have been to party's that suck, but a place that you can walk around in on a weekend that has guns, knives, swords, ammo, blow guns, flashlights, pickles, jerkey,.............. doesn't suck.

 

[RoadDawg]

I don't think ANY gunshow sucks. I have been to movies that suck. I have been to ball games that suck. I have been to party's that suck, but a place that you can walk around in on a weekend that has guns, knives, swords, ammo, blow guns, flashlights, pickles, jerkey,.............. doesn't suck.

And as long as folks continue to stay away from the Maryland Shows... The Maryland Shows will continue to get smaller and smaller and smaller until they disappear... At that point the ruling class will hit us with laws that are the same as the alcohol laws are now... No buying out of state... All purchases from in state brick and mortar stores ONLY. And THEN...

Q: What will those folks bitch about?
A: The LGSs that are forced to sell jerky and knives to stay in business.

 

[Gryphon]

Grits........ salt, pepper & butter or sugar and syrup?

I like grits! I can take them plain! But if you are offering - just a bit of syrup please! Not much, just enough for some flavor!

 

[tsmith1499]

Don't forget the pepperoni bread lady. I think that's a nice addition to the rest.