An Open Letter to Some of You...

[tony b]

i go to as many shows as i can get to . sometimes i find deals sometimes not. there is a lot of unrelated stuff at these shows but i seem to always find cool stuff. i will continue to visit local and out of state shows

 

[Hit and Run]

I often go to gun shows in state, but not many bargains and many thing approach rip off prices. This is a two-way street. If I stop going it because the prices are above what I can pay locally. I am just as happy to give my dollars to local gun shop than gun show dealer trying (unsuccessfully) TO RIP ME OFF. Many prices have reached that threshold at recent gun shows.

 

[teratos]

I agree with supporting the local dealers and shows, however, some dealers need to stop adding 30-50% onto items that are being sold at said shows.

This.

I dare say that, if the consistency of volume was there (and if people behaved like consumers instead of spenders), that would change.

I know this is a "chicken or the egg" argument. I used to love to go to gun shows. I don't anymore. I haven't been to a gun show in Maryland for a couple of years. Why? I don't find anything I want to buy. I see inflated prices, sometimes terribly inflated prices. Why do I want to spend $200 on a Mosin, when I can have one shipped to my door and still have money for a few hundred rounds of ammo? I continue to support my LGS. If there were deals at shows, I would go. Dealers need to do something to attract the customer, not the other way around.

 

[Mr H]

I know this is a "chicken or the egg" argument.

Yes, to a point. But IMO there are some basic things that HAVE to happen, before anything can be sorted out. The laws have to change, which will open the market, then competition will take care of part of the pricing problem, putting upward pressure on the dealers.

Dealers need to do something to attract the customer, not the other way around.

This is the tricky part...

Again, "customers" need to be "consumers" instead, and place downward pressure, reinforcing the need for dealers to compete on price.

But, none of it happens completely without changes to the law.

 

[ma_deuce]

I attend almost all the shows: Chantilly, Frederick, Timonium.

Always looking for obscure and have recently found: Colt 1903 NIB 1921 Vintage, $1600 Colt 1908 Vest pocket $250 and yesterday a Smith and Wesson Model 1 $200...

:-)

+1. I attend the Maryland shows because sometimes I can find things from dealers I didn't even know about or would never ordinarily visit. Last two Maryland shows I went to, I found old S&Ws that were on my short list at reasonable prices from dealers I didn't even know existed, and bought them both. I don't go expecting bargains on new production guns.

 

[erwos]

Again, "customers" need to be "consumers" instead, and place downward pressure, reinforcing the need for dealers to compete on price.

Could you explain how this works in your head? I don't have time for this "downward pressure" exertion. I want the dealer to put the ****ing gun on the table at a price that I want to buy it at. If it's not, I move on. That's how I exert my downward pressure - their shit doesn't sell.

I'd think that prices should go down if fewer people attended the show. You know, less demand = lower prices. Micro econ 101. In theory, the HQL should drive handgun prices down. It may take vendors a show or two to figure out that demand is that much lower, though.

Incidentally, this is why big gun shows work so nicely - more supply = lower prices - and why you can get a $13 pmag in Dulles, whereas I'm sure we'll see lots of people trying to sell $25 10rd mags in Timonium.

But, none of it happens completely without changes to the law.

What are you even talking about? Maryland gun shows sucked horribly before the new law. I only deal with 4-5 shops in the entire state because it's so hard to get good services and prices, never mind a bunch of opportunists at a gun show hoping to fleece someone they'll never meet again. I basically pay the cover fee to see what Shooter's Discount has in a place slightly more convenient to me... and if some other vendor has decided to not be stupid, that's a bonus.

 

[Robert]

Personally, one can support the LGS by going to their shops. Just because it's a Maryland show doesn't mean the vendors are all local.

It's business. Businesses aren't going to do anything that's not in their best interest and neither should a consumer. If the quality of the local shows are such that they are not in our best interest, we should feel free to go somewhere that is. The local shows can then improve and earn our business back or continue to fade away. If people go just to be 'loyal' to a local show, there will be no incentive to improve and hence there will be no improvement.

So, instead of an open letter to 'some of us' to encourage vendors to come to Maryland shows, I would have focused the letter towards the businesses and vendors, to encourage US customers; give US reasons to come to Maryland shows regularly. Businesses should be seeking our dollars, we shouldn't be pressured into seeking distorted ways to give them our dollars.

That's how business in America works.

and he nailed it.

 

[RoadDawg]

Personally, one can support the LGS by going to their shops. Just because it's a Maryland show doesn't mean the vendors are all local.

It's business. Businesses aren't going to do anything that's not in their best interest and neither should a consumer. If the quality of the local shows are such that they are not in our best interest, we should feel free to go somewhere that is. The local shows can then improve and earn our business back or continue to fade away. If people go just to be 'loyal' to a local show, there will be no incentive to improve and hence there will be no improvement.

So, instead of an open letter to 'some of us' to encourage vendors to come to Maryland shows, I would have focused the letter towards the businesses and vendors, to encourage US customers; give US reasons to come to Maryland shows regularly. Businesses should be seeking our dollars, we shouldn't be pressured into seeking distorted ways to give them our dollars.

That's how business in America works.

Docster,
Under normal conditions and in a fair market, I would agree with your post 1000%. However, WE are NOT in a fair market. The market in this state is stifled by highly restrictive and unfair laws and practices by the state.

The dealers can VERY easily say phuk the folks in Maryland and never feel bad about it that there are no local shows where the burgeoning new shooters can go to see what they don't yet know that they need.

Yes, under a fair market... WE the buyers hold the keys to what is or is not a fair price... to a point. The Dealers are not going to sell for less than their costs in any event. NOT unless it means bringing in addition buyers and selling more of other items to break even on the one below market/cost sale item.

So what we see here is a problem. One that has been categorized as a "chicken and egg" issue. The dealers are trying to stay in this state and turn a profit with great odds... The buyers are trying to get what they want at a fair or below average price... And BOTH sides are being bullied by a very one sided and unfair Administration that we NEED to stand together against.

Therefore, WE and the Dealers need to come together and fight as much as we can to preserve all that we have left. We also NEED to encourage ALL new participants in the sport to shop HERE and keep the Dealers alive until we can get changes in the Administration that will be more inline with our ideals and support of the 2A.

The alternative is the roll up the sidewalks, bar the doors, move ALL of the sales and parts outside the state, scream PHUKIT and leave the wasteland to those who are stuck here. But in doing so... we also accept that the cancer that is GUN CONTROL, will follow us and spread to where ever we run away to. And that is [/game]

 

[Robert]

Docster,
Under normal conditions and in a fair market, I would agree with your post 1000%. However, WE are NOT in a fair market. The market in this state is stifled by highly restrictive and unfair laws and practices by the state.

The dealers can VERY easily say phuk the folks in Maryland and never feel bad about it that there are no local shows where the burgeoning new shooters can go to see what they don't yet know that they need.

Yes, under a fair market... WE the buyers hold the keys to what is or is not a fair price... to a point. The Dealers are not going to sell for less than their costs in any event. NOT unless it means bringing in addition buyers and selling more of other items to break even on the one below market/cost sale item.

So what we see here is a problem. One that has been categorized as a "chicken and egg" issue. The dealers are trying to stay in this state and turn a profit with great odds... The buyers are trying to get what they want at a fair or below average price... And BOTH sides are being bullied by a very one sided and unfair Administration that we NEED to stand together against.

Therefore, WE and the Dealers need to come together and fight as much as we can to preserve all that we have left. We also NEED to encourage ALL new participants in the sport to shop HERE and keep the Dealers alive until we can get changes in the Administration that will be more inline with our ideals and support of the 2A.

The alternative is the roll up the sidewalks, bar the doors, move ALL of the sales and parts outside the state, scream PHUKIT and leave the wasteland to those who are stuck here. But in doing so... we also accept that the cancer that is GUN CONTROL, will follow us and spread to where ever we run away to. And that is [/game]

I can really aprciate how hard it is to do bussiness in MD, ANY bussiness not just firearms sales. That said, I believe fair market still applies, I really don't understand how it doesn't.

If a MD gun shop can't compete on price (for whatever the reason), then they need to compete on service. I have purchased all but one firearm from either a LGS or an MDS IP. I keep coming back to the them, not because of price, but service.

The one firearm that I purchased outside of the above was because of price and availability, but I didn't expect any service from the company I made the purchase through. (I actually tried to purchase the firearm from a MDS IP, but was unable do to the IP's store hours)

Even in hostile MD, free market is still in effect, and until these Gun Shows improve, I personally will not spend the ~8 bucks entry fee.

EDIT: I'd rather give that entry fee to help MSI, etc...

 

[Mr H]

RD... Thanks.

You're filling in what I wanted to say, but have been multitasking all evening, and frankly I'm beat.



People want a quick fix, and things to work as they'd prefer, but the situation was created over many years, and will take time to correct.

BTW... I'm in full agreement with those who say "MD gun shows suck."

But, as I always told my boys as they grew, "Nothing gets better with neglect." Take the initiative, and start working on it.

Oh yeah... One more they hated. "Need comes before want. It's in the dictionary." We need to fix the state before we can get what we want.

 

[Robert]

RD... Thanks.

You're filling in what I wanted to say, but have been multitasking all evening, and frankly I'm beat.



People want a quick fix, and things to work as they'd prefer, but the situation was created over many years, and will take time to correct.

BTW... I'm in full agreement with those who say "MD gun shows suck."

But, as I always told my boys as they grew, "Nothing gets better with neglect." Take the initiative, and start working on it.

Oh yeah... One more they hated. "Need comes before want. It's in the dictionary." We need to fix the state before we can get what we want.

So if we go back 75 years of MD's increasingly represive goverment, how many years do you think it will take to correct?

 

[RoadDawg]

I can really aprciate how hard it is to do bussiness in MD, ANY bussiness not just firearms sales. That said, I believe fair market still applies, I really don't understand how it doesn't.

If a MD gun shop can't compete on price (for whatever the reason), then they need to compete on service. I have purchased all but one firearm from either a LGS or an MDS IP. I keep coming back to the them, not because of price, but service.

The one firearm that I purchased outside of the above was because of price and availability, but I didn't expect any service from the company I made the purchase through. (I actually tried to purchase the firearm from a MDS IP, but was unable do to the IP's store hours)

Even in hostile MD, free market is still in effect, and until these Gun Shows improve, I personally will not spend the ~8 bucks entry fee.

EDIT: I'd rather give that entry fee to help MSI, etc...

Ummmm... Just how damned fair is it for the Maryland businesses to have to compete with ALL of the surrounding FREE and fair market states?

Think about it for a few minutes... There is a state line and when folks cross it... they find deals and products that Maryland Dealers CAN NOT OFFER!

So please tell me again how fair this market is? It is not like the alcohol businesses that are making money here because they have a LAW that says folks MUST buy their booze in Maryland so that the TAX gets paid.

 

[Mr H]

So if we go back 75 years of MD's increasingly represive goverment, how many years do you think it will take to correct?

Without getting into the barbs, we've already begun (oh... and it goes back almost 150 years).

IMO, we are a solid 3 years in, and making exponential progress each year, due to folks who are digging in, recruiting others, and causing noise.

This year will be huge. But you might have heard something about that. As long as you--and everyone else you can bring--is involved in the process, we're good.

The 2014 GA session may not "solve" it... but it will certainly set the stage for a changeover in the coming elections, and 2015 will flip the rock.

As for the entry fees? I personally appreciate that you'd rather route them to MSI. But were you aware that both Silverado and Appalachian are sending a portion of their gate to the orgs involved in litigation against FSA13??

 

[RoadDawg]

So if we go back 75 years of MD's increasingly represive goverment, how many years do you think it will take to correct?

Two election cycles is ALL we need...

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Just go.... Even if it's just to piss off the grabbers. . That's worth the $10 all by itself.

 

[Mr H]

Two election cycles is ALL we need...

I think less, but I'm up to date on my Pollyanna Pills.



One of us owes the other a beer.

 

[Mr H]

Just go.... Even if it's just to piss off the grabbers. . That's worth the $10 all by itself.

LOL!!!

Attagirl!!!

 

[RoadDawg]

I think less, but I'm up to date on my Pollyanna Pills.



One of us owes the other a beer.

First one is on me...

 

[Mr H]

First one is on me...

Sounds good... but then I gotta run.

 

[RoadDawg]

Sounds good... but then I gotta run.

You must have come from K-Mart... I always heard that they had cheap skates there...