7.62x39 vs 300blackout

[joemac]

What's the general consensus on max effective range on deer size game?

 

[Vile Shadow]

Yep.

If I get the chance in a diff't state, going to see what 'thumper' can do.

Did "thumper" ever have that meeting with that tree in the backyard?

 

[BradMacc82]

What's the general consensus on max effective range on deer size game?

For deer, I'd feel plenty comfortable out to 250/300. After that I'd be a little hesitant because there is some drop to account for.

Did "thumper" ever have that meeting with that tree in the backyard?

Not that night, but it did once the sun came up and everyone went to work.

I was considerate, just not to that pine tree. It doesn't look like it liked it.

 

[Fiddlersgreen]

Is there a minimal AOL for a ar pistol? I might go the pistol route with the 300blk

 

[BradMacc82]

IIRC, there isn't a OAL requirement for pistols in MD. There is a barrel length requirement IF you're going to hunt with it though - 6", I believe.

You just can't run a vertical fore-grip on a pistol under 26" OAL, IIRC.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

What's the general consensus on max effective range on deer size game?

Going with 150 yards.

I would treat it like a 357 round.

 

[Klunatic]

What's the general consensus on max effective range on deer size game?

I would say 300 yards. With a 130gr Barnes TTSX the energy of the round is going 1484 fps with 636 ft lbs of energy. It is still lethal out to 500 yards with where it goes subsonic with 410 ft lbs of energy. Ethically, hunting I wouldn't push it beyond 200 yards.

Here are the results for 300BLK with Barnes TTSX loaded with 18.1 grains Lil'gun :


Gun / Ammunition : .300 AAC Blackout (SAAMI)
Bullet Type : .308, 130, Barnes 'TTSX'BT 30873
Bullet Weight : 130 grains or 8.42 Grams
Muzzle Velocity : 2086 fps
Twist Length : 7.0 in. (RH)
Gyro. Stability : 3.97
Crosswind Speed : 0.0 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1) :
C1_1=0.350@V>0 fps;


Optimum trajectory information :
Optimum sight-in range (X) = 140 Yds.
with max. ordinate above LOS at range (M)= 85 Yds.
and max. point blank range (P)= 162 Yds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sight-in clicks, 1 click = 0.635 cm/100 yd. or 0.25 in/100 yd.
Height of sight above bore axis = 4.216 cm or 1.66 inch
Gun is zeroed-in at 100 yds,
by sighting-in at level firing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Spin / Wind- Total Sight correction Target
city flight to dage, Wind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 0.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2086 0.0000 1256 -1.7 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
| 25 2030 0.0362 1190 -0.4 0.0 0.06 0.3 +7.0 +1.68 0.40
| 50 1975 0.0731 1126 +0.3 0.1 0.10 1.0 -2.2 -0.52 0.80
M 70 1932 0.1033 1077 +0.4 0.1 0.14 2.0 -2.6 -0.61 1.13
| 75 1921 0.1111 1065 +0.4 0.1 0.15 2.3 -2.3 -0.55 1.21
X 100 1868 0.1506 1007 0.0 0.2 0.19 4.2 0.0 0.00 1.65
| 125 1816 0.1917 952 -1.1 0.3 0.24 6.8 +3.5 +0.83 2.10
P 133 1800 0.2051 935 -1.6 0.4 0.26 7.7 +4.7 +1.13 2.24
| 150 1766 0.2341 900 -2.8 0.5 0.29 10.0 +7.6 +1.81 2.56
| 175 1716 0.2777 850 -5.3 0.6 0.34 14.0 +12.2 +2.91 3.04
| 200 1668 0.3225 803 -8.6 0.8 0.39 18.7 +17.1 +4.09 3.53
| 225 1620 0.3685 758 -12.6 1.0 0.44 24.1 +22.3 +5.33 4.03
| 250 1574 0.4155 715 -17.4 1.3 0.49 30.4 +27.8 +6.63 4.54
| 275 1528 0.4635 674 -23.0 1.6 0.55 37.5 +33.4 +7.97 5.07
| 300 1484 0.5125 636 -29.4 1.9 0.61 45.4 +39.2 +9.36 5.60
| 325 1442 0.5635 600 -36.9 2.3 0.66 54.4 +45.4 +10.85 6.16
| 350 1401 0.6164 566 -45.6 2.7 0.73 64.5 +52.1 +12.43 6.74
| 375 1362 0.6709 535 -55.4 3.1 0.79 75.8 +59.1 +14.10 7.34
| 400 1325 0.7270 506 -66.3 3.6 0.86 88.2 +66.3 +15.84 7.95
| 425 1289 0.7844 479 -78.5 4.1 0.93 101.8 +73.9 +17.64 8.58
| 450 1254 0.8430 454 -91.9 4.7 1.00 116.7 +81.7 +19.49 9.22
| 475 1222 0.9037 431 -106.8 5.4 1.08 133.0 +89.9 +21.46 9.88
| 500 1192 0.9659 410 -123.1 6.1 1.16 150.9 +98.5 +23.52 10.56
| 525 1164 1.0296 391 -141.0 6.8 1.24 170.3 +107.5 +25.65 11.26
| 550 1138 1.0948 374 -160.5 7.6 1.32 191.2 +116.8 +27.87 11.97
| 575 1114 1.1614 358 -181.7 8.5 1.41 213.9 +126.4 +30.18 12.70
| 600 1091 1.2295 344 -204.7 9.4 1.50 238.3 +136.5 +32.58 13.45
| 625 1071 1.2989 331 -229.5 10.4 1.59 264.6 +146.9 +35.06 14.20
| 650 1052 1.3695 320 -256.1 11.5 1.69 292.7 +157.6 +37.63 14.98
| 675 1035 1.4413 309 -284.7 12.6 1.78 322.7 +168.7 +40.27 15.76
| 700 1018 1.5145 299 -315.2 13.8 1.88 354.8 +180.1 +43.00 16.56
| 725 1003 1.5886 290 -347.8 15.1 1.98 388.8 +191.9 +45.80 17.37
| 750 989 1.6638 282 -382.3 16.4 2.09 424.7 +203.9 +48.67 18.20
| 775 975 1.7400 274 -418.9 17.8 2.19 462.8 +216.2 +51.61 19.03
| 800 962 1.8175 267 -457.8 19.3 2.30 503.2 +228.9 +54.64 19.88
| 825 950 1.8962 260 -499.0 20.8 2.41 545.8 +241.9 +57.75 20.74
| 850 938 1.9759 254 -542.4 22.5 2.52 590.7 +255.2 +60.93 21.61
| 875 927 2.0565 248 -588.1 24.2 2.64 637.9 +268.8 +64.17 22.49
| 900 916 2.1378 242 -635.9 25.9 2.75 687.2 +282.6 +67.46 23.38
| 925 905 2.2199 237 -686.0 27.8 2.87 738.8 +296.6 +70.81 24.28
| 950 895 2.3034 231 -738.8 29.7 2.99 793.1 +311.1 +74.25 25.19
| 975 886 2.3871 226 -793.7 31.7 3.11 849.4 +325.6 +77.72 26.11
| 1000 876 2.4721 221 -851.3 33.8 3.23 908.5 +340.5 +81.27 27.04
| 1025 867 2.5583 217 -911.6 36.0 3.36 970.2 +355.7 +84.91 27.98
| 1050 858 2.6454 212 -974.6 38.3 3.48 1034.8 +371.2 +88.62 28.93
| 1075 849 2.7336 208 -1040.4 40.7 3.61 1102.0 +387.1 +92.39 29.89
| 1100 840 2.8226 204 -1108.9 43.1 3.74 1172.0 +403.2 +96.24 30.87
| 1125 832 2.9125 200 -1180.1 45.7 3.88 1244.7 +419.5 +100.14 31.85
| 1150 823 3.0032 196 -1254.1 48.3 4.01 1320.1 +436.1 +104.10 32.84
| 1175 815 3.0946 192 -1330.9 51.0 4.15 1398.3 +452.9 +108.12 33.84
| 1200 807 3.1867 188 -1410.3 53.9 4.29 1479.3 +470.0 +112.18 34.85
| 1225 800 3.2800 185 -1493.1 56.8 4.43 1563.5 +487.4 +116.34 35.87
| 1250 792 3.3736 181 -1578.4 59.8 4.57 1650.2 +504.9 +120.52 36.89
| 1275 784 3.4685 178 -1667.0 62.9 4.71 1740.4 +522.8 +124.79 37.93
| 1300 777 3.5645 174 -1759.1 66.1 4.86 1833.9 +541.0 +129.15 38.98
| 1325 770 3.6616 171 -1854.6 69.5 5.01 1930.9 +559.6 +133.58 40.04
| 1350 763 3.7597 168 -1953.5 72.9 5.16 2031.3 +578.5 +138.10 41.12
| 1375 756 3.8589 165 -2055.9 76.5 5.31 2135.1 +597.8 +142.69 42.20
| 1400 749 3.9590 162 -2161.8 80.1 5.46 2242.5 +617.3 +147.35 43.30
| 1425 742 4.0600 159 -2271.2 83.9 5.62 2353.4 +637.1 +152.09 44.40
| 1450 735 4.1619 156 -2384.1 87.8 5.78 2467.8 +657.3 +156.89 45.52
| 1475 728 4.2646 153 -2500.6 91.8 5.94 2585.7 +677.7 +161.76 46.64
| 1500 722 4.3682 150 -2620.5 95.9 6.11 2707.1 +698.3 +166.68 47.77

 

[Bart_man]

X39 was designed to work in loose fitting guns, so if you tighten things up to get better accuracy, you get the reliability of an ar, which isn't bad. Plus x39 is cheap and plentiful.

The x35 is an engineering masterpiece. Whoever thought to put a 308 bullet into a 223 case and design it to use all its powder in a 10" barrel is a genius! It's the ultimate suppress able in subsonic.

If I could own only one rifle it would be a 556, but followed closely by a x35 pistol. All parts interchangeable too, except the barrel. So if you own an ar, you just need a barrel and you also own a x35. Congratulations. x35 is only getting more popular.

Once you go blk, you won't go back.

Just kidding, I still shoot more 556, it's cheaper and does most everything a blackout can do.

So to sum up: 300blackout (aka x35), has the range of an AR, knockdown power of an AK, can be readily suppressed, works great in a short barrel and is your AR, but with a different barrel. What's not to like? Ok, we need more ammo, and it costs too much to shoot (at the moment).

Minuteman and I have this conversation all the time but I have yet to get him some trigger time on my rifle and he doesnt have one, just his 300blk pistol that he is a devoted fanboi of.

But if you want to Suppress a .30caliber round the x39 will do it and still packa hell of a punch with a 220 or 230 grn projectile
Ill just leave this here [YT]28X33tPqFmg[/MEDIA]

http://youtu.be/28X33tPqFmg

 

[Fiddlersgreen]

What would the max effective range of a 9" pistol be? Not planning on hunting with it

 

[BradMacc82]

What would the max effective range of a 9" pistol be? Not planning on hunting with it

Depends on what weight round you're running and what velocities you're getting.


But that's part of the beauty of the round, it was designed to be efficient in the shorter barrel lengths from the get-go.

 

[Minuteman]

What would the max effective range of a 9" pistol be? Not planning on hunting with it

500 yards. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC_Blackout_(7.62×35mm)

 

[Klunatic]

But if you want to Suppress a .30caliber round the x39 will do it and still packa hell of a punch with a 220 or 230 grn projectile
Ill just leave this here

Sorry I have to throw the BS flag on this one. This combination of 230gr subsonic (980 fps) has the energy of 490 ft lbs at the muzzle. About the same energy as .45apc hand gun. No way that that will penetrate 12" phone book unless its shredded. Notice we didn't get to see inside the mystery box.

I'll leave this one for you, 300BLK 194gr Lehigh defense at 1092 fps, 514 ft. lbs energy. Ballistics gell starts as 5:14.




and this one 300BLK 110gr Lehigh defense at 2300 fps.

 

[Fiddlersgreen]

500yards out of a 9" barrel is pretty impressive IMO. Anyone on here actually done it?

 

[ducrider45]

300 for me! I built an AR SBR and got a Rem 700 bolt gun in 300 blackout.

 

[Klunatic]

500yards out of a 9" barrel is pretty impressive IMO. Anyone on here actually done it?

Yes, I have, not a live target using a ACOG. Travis Haley does a great review in this video. He is using an Aimpoint and hits a target at 750 yards multiple times at the 7:10 mark. Sorry cant' get it to embed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&list=UUdqO3qjABeMfqdhErk-A7zg&index=3

 

[photoracer]

Ballpark cost to have a local gunsmith convert an AR upper to 300BLK?

All you need is a barrel and a bolt. Fairly easy to do that by yourself.
In my case I would take a 6.8mm SPC II over either the 300 Blackout or the 7.62x39. More accurate than either at any distance and more lethal past 200 yards and beyond.

 

[Biggfoot44]

With expanding supersonic bullets , will be substantially similar to 7.62x39 , or .30-30 single loaded with spitzers.

Mr. J.D. Jones ( the inventor of the whole concept), swears by the performance of subsonic 220-250 SMK's tumbling on game. He has multiple trips to Africa and Austrailia , and literally truckloads of Ohio whitetails to prove his point.

 

[Fiddlersgreen]

Can you use the same rounds in the .308 and 300blk? Such as an M80. Are the .223 cases easy to size to 300blk?

 

[BradMacc82]

Can you use the same rounds in the .308 and 300blk? Such as an M80. Are the .223 cases easy to size to 300blk?

The only limitation on what .308 pill you can use is - finding load data for it.

If you're not experienced in reloading, let someone else be the guinea pig when it comes to developing new data. Just randomly loading up a certain bullet weight with a untried/tested powder can have 'less than ideal' results.


Sizing the .223/5.56 case to 300BLK is easy, it's trimming that can be time consuming - depending on how you're cutting the cases down.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

The only limitation on what .308 pill you can use is - finding load data for it.

If you're not experienced in reloading, let someone else be the guinea pig when it comes to developing new data. Just randomly loading up a certain bullet weight with a untried/tested powder can have 'less than ideal' results.


Sizing the .223/5.56 case to 300BLK is easy, it's trimming that can be time consuming - depending on how you're cutting the cases down.

You forgot about finding the right powders...

A friend of mind pulled out a big one for me by getting me a pound of W296, from out of state.