2022 DNR crab count

[hobiecat590]

I honestly don't have a clue what it will take to fix this. Seems like small scale, private use crabbing likely isn't the problem as long as you're not taking undersized crabs or pregnant females.

I have an idea that might help in addition to never keeping any females aka sooks because you can't know if they just got pregnant. Reducing/eliminating commercial catch of sooks would have an immediate positive impact on the crab population.

SMOCS planted about 12 million oyster and created 7 reefs 5 years ago or so. In the Solomon's Island creek system and a few other Pax River creeks.

This year is has seen explosive underwater grass growth in the Solomon’s creeks of Mill Creek, St Johns, Back Creek etc. I estimate 80% of the head of St Johns Creek was covered in grass and the water was clear to the bottom until the recent rains and warmer water. I suppose all those oysters we planted are working to clean the water permitting sunlight to reach the bottom and grass to grow on what was recently an underwater desert. Besides observing increased numbers and varieties of birds, this improved habitat is great for crabs and fish.

Oyster conservation efforts work if we will give them a chance. If we could convince the state to make other Bay creeks permanent oyster harvesting sanctuaries as was done for the Solomon’s creek systems, and work to establish new oyster beds in these new sanctuaries instead of the main Bay and rivers, these could become the oyster nurseries for entire Bay. I have also seen evidence of natural spat sets over the last few years which is an excellent sign that these nurseries could help restore oysters in the main Bay if established in greater numbers. More oysters equate to cleaner water that promotes plant growth, that provides habitat for crabs, fish, and birds. The oyster beds themselves are micro eco systems that attract all sorts of critters including crabs. I have a few thousand oysters on the surface and in beds around my dock and have never had a problem catching as many crabs as needed for crab feasts.

 

[remrug]

There are 2 issues with the crab population. First rockfish are now at record numbers in the bay they are eating crabs. When the rockfish population was low the crab population was high. Second they need to have a ban on female crabs. As for a complete ban on crabbing I’d be fine with a 2 or 3 year ban. It would hurt the local waterman but places selling crabs would not get hit hard as many of them import their crabs from the gulf anyway.

I hear this a lot,but I dont think that is a problem.When I was a youngster, in the 70,s we spent most of the summer fishing and crabbing. There were tons of crabs and tons of rockfish to be caught. I remember keeping 12 inch rockfish,so I dont think there was any size limit then.I can still hear one of my uncles saying " Keep them if it will make a sandwich" lol

 

[welder516]

Impossible Crab meat is he answer.

 

[Boondock Saint]

Crabs have been too expensive for a few years now, at least. This most recent bit of bad news will only drive the price even higher. Damn.

 

[Brute]

Impossible Crab meat is he answer.

I'm sorry, I don't think we can be friends.

 

[hobiecat590]

There are 2 issues with the crab population. First rockfish are now at record numbers in the bay they are eating crabs. When the rockfish population was low the crab population was high. Second they need to have a ban on female crabs. As for a complete ban on crabbing I’d be fine with a 2 or 3 year ban. It would hurt the local waterman but places selling crabs would not get hit hard as many of them import their crabs from the gulf anyway.

Once upon a time this was true but w/ all due respect MD rockfish stocks have crashed since a peak in '04 '

"The 2021 young-of-year index is 3.2 in Maryland waters, which is slightly higher than last year, but still well below the long-term average of 11.4. Striped bass reproductive success varies from year to year, but the below average index is a concern that biologists will continue to study"

Striped Bass | Chesapeake Bay Program

Striped bass, also called rockfish, are key predators in the Chesapeake Bay food web and support one of the Bay's most popular fisheries.

www.chesapeakebay.net

I support a moratorium on all female crab catches and have not kept or bought one since the 80's.:

"Although a female will mate only once, she will produce many fertilized egg masses during her lifetime from this single mating. Studies in Florida found that some female crabs produce as many as seven broods (sponges) in one year from a single mating, and up to 18 broods over 2-2½ years." In other words, a sook may be pregnant but not showing any sponge.

 

[Derwood]

My semi-educated opinion: the major factors I am 100% convinced are negatively affecting the crab population are...

*pollution from industrial point sources (e.g. stormwater/sewage overflows) especially in the upper Bay -- kills crabs and their food sources. This violates the Clean Water Act but apparently there is no way to enforce it right now. Sad AND disgusting. They fixed this in DC (Blue Plains Facility) but have made no progress in Baltimore.

*pollution from agriculture runoff (mostly via Susquahana/Conowingo Dam but also the entire region) -- causes algae blooms that kill crabs and food sources due to oxygen deprivation, leading to dead zones

*excessive commercial harvesting of menhaden in the lower bay -- again, depriving crabs and other predators of important sources of food all in the name of serving the fish oil pill market. Sad.

*harvesting of female crabs, especially in the lower bay (Virginia) -- I have never heard a solid, rational argument for why this could be a good idea

*destruction of the oyster population -- as the above commenter points out, the difference in water clarity and vegetation growth in areas that have oyster farms now is stunning. My area in St. Mary's now has grass coverage thanks to oyster farms. 3 years ago it was a total desert under water with minimal water clarity. No cover = no food for crabs and nowhere for crabs to hide from predatory fish

I don't know of many recreational crabbers who regularly manage to get two bushels, so I don't think the new restriction will do much. I also think there is a second tier of issues affecting the crabs negatively. These include:

*harvesting of female crabs in the mid- and upper bay (Maryland) by commercial rigs. I know they don't keep true dark sponge crabs, but no one can truly know if a female might be carrying eggs.

*increased recreational harvest -- more people than ever have boats and knowledge about how to crab.

*increased population of red drum, skates, blue catfish and other predators -- this is hard to quantify but it's just a hunch.

*increased commercial harvest efficiency -- pro crabbers today have tools that the watermen of 30 years ago could have only dreamed of, from depth finders to auto winders, technology makes the job easier and more efficient today.

I think the top 5 can be addressed. The bottom 4 are much harder to get at.

Just like I posted on here a couple years ago with regard to the declining goose numbers, I'd much rather lay off of crabbing and/or goose hunting for a few seasons to let the population recover rather than dealing with restrictions that sound good but might not actually do much (i.e. one goose/bushel limit for people who only waterfowl or crab 5-10 times per season).

 

[ittgittg]

Best idea I've read (least seems sound enough to me) is for the state to put a hold on crabbing for a few years and pay the watermen to seed oysters to keep them working. Don't know a solution for down the line for restaurants, etc, but there's got to be a way to promote an invasive species or more abundant alternative as the proud MD way of saving our seabugs.

 

[hobiecat590]

My semi-educated opinion: the major factors I am 100% convinced are negatively affecting the crab population are...

*pollution from industrial point sources (e.g. stormwater/sewage overflows) especially in the upper Bay -- kills crabs and their food sources. This violates the Clean Water Act but apparently there is no way to enforce it right now. Sad AND disgusting. They fixed this in DC (Blue Plains Facility) but have made no progress in Baltimore.

*pollution from agriculture runoff (mostly via Susquahana/Conowingo Dam but also the entire region) -- causes algae blooms that kill crabs and food sources due to oxygen deprivation, leading to dead zones

*excessive commercial harvesting of menhaden in the lower bay -- again, depriving crabs and other predators of important sources of food all in the name of serving the fish oil pill market. Sad.

*harvesting of female crabs, especially in the lower bay (Virginia) -- I have never heard a solid, rational argument for why this could be a good idea

*destruction of the oyster population -- as the above commenter points out, the difference in water clarity and vegetation growth in areas that have oyster farms now is stunning. My area in St. Mary's now has grass coverage thanks to oyster farms. 3 years ago it was a total desert under water with minimal water clarity. No cover = no food for crabs and nowhere for crabs to hide from predatory fish

I don't know of many recreational crabbers who regularly manage to get two bushels, so I don't think the new restriction will do much. I also think there is a second tier of issues affecting the crabs negatively. These include:

*harvesting of female crabs in the mid- and upper bay (Maryland) by commercial rigs. I know they don't keep true dark sponge crabs, but no one can truly know if a female might be carrying eggs.

*increased recreational harvest -- more people than ever have boats and knowledge about how to crab.

*increased population of red drum, skates, blue catfish and other predators -- this is hard to quantify but it's just a hunch.

*increased commercial harvest efficiency -- pro crabbers today have tools that the watermen of 30 years ago could have only dreamed of, from depth finders to auto winders, technology makes the job easier and more efficient today.

I think the top 5 can be addressed. The bottom 4 are much harder to get at.

Just like I posted on here a couple years ago with regard to the declining goose numbers, I'd much rather lay off of crabbing and/or goose hunting for a few seasons to let the population recover rather than dealing with restrictions that sound good but might not actually do much (i.e. one goose/bushel limit for people who only waterfowl or crab 5-10 times per season).

Outstanding summary. IMHO, closing sook harvesting immediately for one and all would fix the crab problem w/in 1 year.

Closing the commercial Menhaden fishery in Deltaville would fix the Rock fish and Blues problem w/in 2 years. It never occurred to me that they were starving crabs also. This one really pisses me off. CCA or MD should just pay these folks the $15 million or so each year they get in profit to not to industrially fish the Bay. Since the government pays farmers not to plant, this would not be a stretch. This proposal would preserve a $100+ million sport fishing industry alone AND save filter feeding fish that help oysters clean Bay waters. A tax revenue positive proposition for MD. What's not to like since everyone wins? Everything else you propose is icing on the cake.

 

[hobiecat590]

FWIW, (not to pick on Mel specifically) until we fix this problem our Bay crab fishery is doomed.

Sunday July 3, 2022. Today at Mel's Crabs, Females $19.00/Doz. $179/Bu. Medium fresh frozen soft crabs $4.50/ea.

 

[DaveP]

Many say females should be completely off-limits, so they can continue making more.

Tuck Hines published a paper a decade ago pointing out that restrictions on females won't do much in MD. He looked at sperm counts in male crabs in MD and determined that they were way lower than crabs in areas with less harvest pressure. Makes take a long time to recharge, so they are locking up females but not delivering the goods.

Lost reproductive potential.

So what sounds good and reasonable, may actually be making things worse.

I've asked folks in MD DNR's crab program, and while they are aware of the findings, that seems to be the extent of their interest.

 

[hobiecat590]

Tuck Hines published a paper a decade ago pointing out that restrictions on females won't do much in MD. He looked at sperm counts in male crabs in MD and determined that they were way lower than crabs in areas with less harvest pressure. Makes take a long time to recharge, so they are locking up females but not delivering the goods.

Lost reproductive potential.

So what sounds good and reasonable, may actually be making things worse.

I've asked folks in MD DNR's crab program, and while they are aware of the findings, that seems to be the extent of their interest.

Please help me understand how harvesting female crabs can make things better. With all due respect I am not following your logic.

10 years ago would be 2012 and the following is from 2019 if the graph is correct. I'm wondering if Tuck changed his position but can not find his 2012 paper. The best I could come up with is the following:

https://ecosystemsontheedge.org/top-predator/ Excerpt from Tuck:

"The crab population crash that began in the early 1990s offers a stark picture of a fishery out of balance. By 2000, the number of mature females in the lower Bay had fallen 84 percent. Meanwhile prices skyrocketed above $300 a bushel, and the Chesapeake resorted to importing crabs from other states, and even crab meat from species in southeast Asia. Then, in 2008, Maryland and Virginia both took steps to protect adult females. Two years later the population rebounded.

A lot of links are claiming a 3:1 female to male population distribution. All I know, are my observations are more like 12 males to 1 female at the head of creeks in the Solomon's/Lusby waters. This distribution must change depending where your are in the bay.

IMHO, the best thing that helped the crab population occurred around 2012-2013 when VA suspended winter dredging of mostly pregnant females. I don't know if VA restarted this, but if they have restarted recently, this could help explain the crab stock collapse. Fortunately, the VA 2022-23 winter crab dredging season is closed.

FTR: Mels is running a special $19/dozen special on females this week... I sure hope our crabs don't go the way of our oysters.

 

[44man]

I was hoping the feds would get serious about saving the bay and pass a law that possession of a crab, fish or shellfish for the next 50 years would be a crime punishable by immediate execution

Then I would not have to listen to the bitching from my watermen friends or the treehuggers anymore before I die

Seems like a win win

 

[DaveP]

Please help me understand how harvesting female crabs can make things better. With all due respect I am not following your logic.

10 years ago would be 2012 and the following is from 2019 if the graph is correct. I'm wondering if Tuck changed his position but can not find his 2012 paper. The best I could come up with is the following:

https://ecosystemsontheedge.org/top-predator/ Excerpt from Tuck:

"The crab population crash that began in the early 1990s offers a stark picture of a fishery out of balance. By 2000, the number of mature females in the lower Bay had fallen 84 percent. Meanwhile prices skyrocketed above $300 a bushel, and the Chesapeake resorted to importing crabs from other states, and even crab meat from species in southeast Asia. Then, in 2008, Maryland and Virginia both took steps to protect adult females. Two years later the population rebounded.

A lot of links are claiming a 3:1 female to male population distribution. All I know, are my observations are more like 12 males to 1 female at the head of creeks in the Solomon's/Lusby waters. This distribution must change depending where your are in the bay.

IMHO, the best thing that helped the crab population occurred around 2012-2013 when VA suspended winter dredging of mostly pregnant females. I don't know if VA restarted this, but if they have restarted recently, this could help explain the crab stock collapse. Fortunately, the VA 2022-23 winter crab dredging season is closed.

FTR: Mels is running a special $19/dozen special on females this week... I sure hope our crabs don't go the way of our oysters.

I guess I did not make my point clear.
Limiting female harvest and allowing continued high harvest of males means that males are mating female after female without a long enough refractory period, so not delivering enough sperm. Reproductive potential of these females is wasted. Yet we think we are doing something by protecting more females.

Ideally, female AND male harvest would be reduced until things turn around.

 

[Slackdaddy]

To many people,, Pressuring to little resources

 

[hobiecat590]

I guess I did not make my point clear.
Limiting female harvest and allowing continued high harvest of males means that males are mating female after female without a long enough refractory period, so not delivering enough sperm. Reproductive potential of these females is wasted. Yet we think we are doing something by protecting more females.

Ideally, female AND male harvest would be reduced until things turn around.

Thanks, got it and I agree with you. My point, was that by only eliminating all female harvesting, perhaps the population might recover naturally and be more palatable politically. I do not think restricting both the male and female harvest numbers is possible politically given our experience with trying to limit the oyster fishery areas in the past.

 

[Afrikeber]

The problem is all the crap that's washing down from NY and PA, AFAIK. And everyone refuses to do anything about it.

Agree, have you ever seen the trash removal operation on the Conowingo dam that takes place almost daily and that’s just surface trash not including sediment, fertilizers, human waste, etc that flows through the turbines that get churned up and pushed into the Chesapeake.

I stopped fishing the bay years ago and fish Massachusetts where I can get my creel limit no problem. PA and VA clearly are not doing their share in cleaning this mess up.

 

[hobiecat590]

FWIW,
Friday July 15, 2022. Today at Mel's Crabs, #1 Males $35.00/Doz. #2 Males $19.00/Doz. Females $12.00/Doz. Medium fresh frozen soft crabs $4.50/ea.

 

[fabsroman]

FWIW,
Friday July 15, 2022. Today at Mel's Crabs, #1 Males $35.00/Doz. #2 Males $19.00/Doz. Females $12.00/Doz. Medium fresh frozen soft crabs $4.50/ea.

$19/dozen is "affordable" for me. Sad thing is that Mel's is 3 hours away from me and the price today, Sunday July 17th, is back to $39/dozen for #2 males. $350/bushel for #2 males.

The powers that be need to figure out a lot of things regarding our wildlife. Crabs, oysters, rockfish, Canada geese, turkeys, etc.

I remember the rockfish moratorium from the 90s and Canada goose issues have been here for the past 25 years. I remember talk of a Canada goose moratorium back in the 90s too.

 

[Mr H]

Impossible Crab meat is he answer.

I'm sorry, I don't think we can be friends.

But... but... we have Surimi!!!

/sarc