Senate Bill 737 - Register Your Long Guns With MSP

[BeoBill]

Seems like our adversaries only have their eyes on the Infringement Prize ...and not whether they are being “bullied” to show up....

They're employed and generously subsidized by millionaires, backed by Hollywood stars, promoted by the media, and enlist the brainwashed fanatics as footsoldiers.

We stand in the cold and heat, and are subsidized by NOBODY BUT OURSELVES.

 

[BeoBill]

You didn't fill out a 77R for (non-regulated) rifles and shotguns .

I haven't bought any in this hole. I watched my friends and associates fill out "VOLUNTARY" MSP paperwork to complete a sale at an FFL. Good enough for you?

 

[Biggfoot44]

I bought a shotgun within the last week, no MSP paperwork involved, just a 4473 .

 

[SCV/SAR Patriot]

How does that long rifle armed rally in s.

You need a show of force. Get 70,000+ people open-carrying long rifles in Maryland. You can fill an Orioles or Ravens game with tens of thousands of people in a stadium, but can't get people to show up for their 2nd Amendment right?

That sounds like stuff I say but have never said it here before. I wish I could say otherwise but I honestly think nothing else will work.

Very true how the peasants are indoctrinated by bread and circuses and most don't even realize it.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yes they do. What do you think they do with the info that you "voluntarily" provided to the MSP on each and every 77r that you "voluntarily" filled out to buy your gun?

No, they do not. You DO NOT fill out any MSP paperwork on a non-regulated long gun sale. You do the 4473, and that's it. Maryland has ZERO knowledge of any non-regulated firearm sale. Period.

I haven't bought any in this hole.

Then please, and I say this respectfully, stop giving out bad information.

I watched my friends and associates fill out "VOLUNTARY" MSP paperwork to complete a sale at an FFL. Good enough for you?

No, it's not good enough.
Here's how it works:
If you buy a "regulated firearm" (prior to 10/1/13 this was any handgun and certain rifles. Those certain rifles are now all banned and you can't buy or sell them, so now it's only handguns) you do three pieces of paperwork:

1. A 4473, which is Federal and MD knows nothing about
2. A 77R, which is the Maryland registration form
3. A mental health record release, which is a MD form

So for Regulated Firearms, Maryland registers them.

When you buy any other non-regulated long gun (this includes shotguns, most rifles, HBAR AR-15s, AR-10s, etc) all you fill out is a 4473, which never has any contact with any Maryland anything.

Therefore, Maryland has no way of knowing anything about non-regulated sales. They do not have a list, a registry, or anything of the kind.

As to your friends filling out "voluntary paperwork" I have no idea what you're referring to.

 

[Allen65]

Therefore, Maryland has no way of knowing anything about non-regulated sales. They do not have a list, a registry, or anything of the kind.

Not to be argumentative, but MSP can stop by any MD licensed firearms dealer at any time and inspect its books. No, that's not nearly the same as having real-time transaction data like with a 77R. And from what I understand, those sort of audits don't happen that often. But no transfer involving a MD FFL is completely opaque.

 

[teratos]

How does that long rifle armed rally in Annapolis sound to you now? I told you they won't stop, they're not afraid of the gun community when they protest with stupid signs and yelling stupid slogans in small numbers.

You need a show of force. Get 70,000+ people open-carrying long rifles in Maryland. You can fill an Orioles or Ravens game with tens of thousands of people in a stadium, but can't get people to show up for their 2nd Amendment right?

Good luck. If you have a plan I’m all ears. I’ve been on the planning side of these things. Getting people out is very difficult. I’m tired of people telling us what we “need”. I want to hear your plan for getting 70,000 people out when most years we are lucky to get 70.

 

[BeoBill]

No, they do not. You DO NOT fill out any MSP paperwork on a non-regulated long gun sale. You do the 4473, and that's it. Maryland has ZERO knowledge of any non-regulated firearm sale. Period.



Then please, and I say this respectfully, stop giving out bad information.



No, it's not good enough.
Here's how it works:
If you buy a "regulated firearm" (prior to 10/1/13 this was any handgun and certain rifles. Those certain rifles are now all banned and you can't buy or sell them, so now it's only handguns) you do three pieces of paperwork:

1. A 4473, which is Federal and MD knows nothing about
2. A 77R, which is the Maryland registration form
3. A mental health record release, which is a MD form

So for Regulated Firearms, Maryland registers them.

When you buy any other non-regulated long gun (this includes shotguns, most rifles, HBAR AR-15s, AR-10s, etc) all you fill out is a 4473, which never has any contact with any Maryland anything.

Therefore, Maryland has no way of knowing anything about non-regulated sales. They do not have a list, a registry, or anything of the kind.

As to your friends filling out "voluntary paperwork" I have no idea what you're referring to.

Very well, I stand corrected. However, they filled out a form, which means the serial number matched with their name was captured at the time of sale. Anyway, see below...

Not to be argumentative, but MSP can stop by any MD licensed firearms dealer at any time and inspect its books. No, that's not nearly the same as having real-time transaction data like with a 77R. And from what I understand, those sort of audits don't happen that often. But no transfer involving a MD FFL is completely opaque.

And like the Internet, required paperwork never forgets. I would bet with the current state of scanning software and the move to paperless forms, there can/will be a de facto registry in a jiffy. And the LGQL (if enacted) will capture the PEOPLE and an assurance that they possess a long gun. So there you are.

Sorry if I seem cranky tonight, but in reading summaries of the proposed state and Federal bills, I have SNAPPED. I'm tired of word games, and I'm tired of excuses while our civil rights evaporate before my eyes.

 

[BeoBill]

Good luck. If you have a plan I’m all ears. I’ve been on the planning side of these things. Getting people out is very difficult. I’m tired of people telling us what we “need”. I want to hear your plan for getting 70,000 people out when most years we are lucky to get 70.

Thank you for the wake up call!

 

[RepublicOfFranklin]

I agree that this is just to ease confiscation. Expand the red flag law, know what every single person has through mass registration then start with the mass red flags. What’s the Constitution when Maryland has never obeyed it? What penalty is there for state legislators if it’s found unconstitutional? Meanwhile those arrested for felonies still don’t have a livelihood and have a police record. Until penalties exist for legislators to trample our rights I don’t see them stopping.


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[clandestine]

ATF does cooperate with the MSP. Those who think the MSP won't get 4473 info don't understand the way things work. There is the "Law" (regarding destroying info) and there is reality. How do you think the MSP found about MD residents buying Post 10/2013 Non HBAR AR's at PA dealers? NICS and ATF is how.

When the MSP does an annual Regulated Dealer inspections (Pistol & Revolver License) they do wonky things too. If a FFL does not have a Pistol and Revolver License then the MSP does not do inspections to those FFL's.

If they pass the LGQL the MSP will have authority over all FFL's who sell/transfer guns because they will need to be regulated by the MSP to do any transfer. Once that happens, they now have full reign on what is in the dealer long gun books and they will dig through old long gun books and get that information. FFL's are required to keep records for the last 20 years so all guns bought in MD via 4473 post 10/1/2013 are documented in those dealer log books.

The ATF also keeps log books and 4473's from dealers that relinquish their FFL. They don't destroy that data.

 

[Schipperke]

Big thread maybe posted. look at the date;

In the Senate - Hearing 2/27

 

[Doctor_M]

We need to have a MDS swap meet while face to face sales and trades are still legal. Not only would it be a good thing to do, but might be a chance to monkey with their back door accounting.

 

[teratos]

We need to have a MDS swap meet while face to face sales and trades are still legal. Not only would it be a good thing to do, but might be a chance to monkey with their back door accounting.

I'm in.

 

[Doctor_M]

I'm in.

If there is interest from others, I might host an event later this spring or summer. Have some room in Carroll County which is central to most. Open to ideas.... but let's not derail this thread... will start another later.

 

[Mark75H]

Waiting to see if DU becomes interested in defeating this at all

 

[Hawkeye]

Very well, I stand corrected. However, they filled out a form, which means the serial number matched with their name was captured at the time of sale. Anyway, see below...

Well, you've always been able to voluntarily register guns in MD if you wanted to. Why you would I have no idea.

Sorry if I seem cranky tonight, but in reading summaries of the proposed state and Federal bills, I have SNAPPED. I'm tired of word games, and I'm tired of excuses while our civil rights evaporate before my eyes.

No worries. There's a lot of that going around today. I'm pretty damn upset myself.

We need to have a MDS swap meet while face to face sales and trades are still legal. Not only would it be a good thing to do, but might be a chance to monkey with their back door accounting.

That right there points out the idiocy of the whole scheme to begin with.

"That rifle? Oh, I bought that yeaaaaaars ago. Long before the LGQL."

Prove otherwise in court.

 

[teratos]

Waiting to see if DU becomes interested in defeating this at all

Yes. They should get word out to their membership if at all possible.

 

[Bertfish]

Waiting to see if DU becomes interested in defeating this at all

DU?

 

[teratos]

That right there points out the idiocy of the whole scheme to begin with.

"That rifle? Oh, I bought that yeaaaaaars ago. Long before the LGQL."

Prove otherwise in court.

They have never cared about logic. Nothing in any of these bills ever addresses criminals. They just make us criminals..