No more SBRs

[bobthefisher]

It's not all bad. By defining it themselves, I would assume the MSP opens themselves up to challenges on their definition, how they came up with it, and whether it's consistent with legislative intent.

Yeah, although I think that would probably entail someone getting arrested first for violation of one of the articles and then arguing to the judge about the mess. Raise your hand who wants to go first... anyone?

What we need is to get some damn AK pistols on the handgun roster board ASAP! I vote for the PAP M70/M92 pistol from CAI, those seem to be cheap and everywhere. I don't recognize any AK pistols on the assault pistol list, of course they have weird names and models for that list and I could have missed it.

 

[bobthefisher]

Not HBAR:/ it's going on a post 10/1 Colt HBAR so I need a 10.3 heavy barrel.

I'm confused, if it's an SBR (doesn't matter if it's post 10/1) then it doesn't have to be an HBAR unless you make the barrel 16 inches or greater. Sorry I'm probably missing something about your build plans.

 

[TNW]

I'm confused, if it's an SBR (doesn't matter if it's post 10/1) then it doesn't have to be an HBAR unless you make the barrel 16 inches or greater. Sorry I'm probably missing something about your build plans.

Somewhere in one of these threads we decided that on a cash and carry HBAR that was not banned or regulated, you keep it in a non banned configuration to stay in compliance with Maryland law. Someone else can explain it better than I can I'm sure.

Edit: when I say "we decided" I mean that we concluded to remain the law abiding citizens we are, we must comply with said stipulation.

 

[bobthefisher]

Somewhere in one of these threads we decided that on a cash and carry HBAR that was not banned or regulated, you keep it in a non banned configuration to stay in compliance with Maryland law. Someone else can explain it better than I can I'm sure.

Edit: when I say "we decided" I mean that we concluded to remain the law abiding citizens we are, we must comply with said stipulation.

It shouldn't matter, all SBR's are handguns and would require a 77r regulated firearm transfer. Therefore, no cash and carry for any SBR.

 

[TNW]

It shouldn't matter, all SBR's are handguns and would require a 77r regulated firearm transfer. Therefore, no cash and carry for any SBR.

Yeah but it's on a form 1 not a form 4.

 

[bobthefisher]

Yeah but it's on a form 1 not a form 4.

Still doesn't matter. SBR's are defined has handguns, and thus the Assault Long Gun list does not apply, only the copycat clauses because of how that particular Criminal Law article subtitle is written. The MSP advisory agrees with this reading of the law, hence why they made no mention of the ALG list. I would say buy your DD Mk18 and just make sure it's 29" in OAL.

 

[TNW]

Still doesn't matter. SBR's are defined has handguns, and thus the Assault Long Gun list does not apply, only the copycat clauses because of how that particular Criminal Law article subtitle is written. The MSP advisory agrees with this reading of the law, hence why they made no mention of the ALG list. I would say buy your DD Mk18 and just make sure it's 29" in OAL.

It would be over 29", but I thought the issue was that they are not defined EXCLUSIVELY as handguns...

 

[bobthefisher]

It would be over 29", but I thought the issue was that they are not defined EXCLUSIVELY as handguns...

To be honest, and as I stated in a previous post... Yes, by reading the law you could potential read it that SBR's also fall under the ALG list. However, the fact that the PSA 5-101 subtitle (same subtitle as the Assualt Long Gun/Assualt Weapon rifle list) defines anything under 16 inches as a "handgun", makes more sense to interpret all SBR's as handguns. This is what MSP has also appeared to have done, hence the exclusion of the ALG list in MSP advisory. Although, as you know under CR 4-301 subtitle, which has different definitions for firearms, or the lack thereof, that the semi-automatic rifle copycat clauses also apply to SBR's.

After going over this sh!t, again, again, and again... and yes still potential f-ing it up. But, I think this time, along with the MSP advisory not including the ALG list, we got this pile of BS down. I personally wouldn't have any reservations about getting the DD Mk 18 upper (non-HBAR) for a post 10/1 SBR build. But as the catch goes, I am not a lawyer.

My head hurts.

From the MSP advisory.

V. Transfer
Public Safety Article (“PS”) § 5-101(r) defines “regulated firearm” to include a “handgun” which
is defined in § 5-101(n)(1) to mean “a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.” Therefore, if
a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun has a barrel length of less than 16 inches, the firearm is
a “handgun” and subject to the application, background check and other requirements relating to the
transfer of “regulated firearms” under Public Safety Article Title 5, Subtitle 1 .

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Yeah, although I think that would probably entail someone getting arrested first for violation of one of the articles and then arguing to the judge about the mess. Raise your hand who wants to go first... anyone?

What we need is to get some damn AK pistols on the handgun roster board ASAP! I vote for the PAP M70/M92 pistol from CAI, those seem to be cheap and everywhere. I don't recognize any AK pistols on the assault pistol list, of course they have weird names and models for that list and I could have missed it.

Draco Pistols please.

And...defeat all the "banned and copy cat tests" in the current lawsuits, and all of this goes back to status quo.

 

[bobthefisher]

Draco Pistols please.

And...defeat all the "banned and copy cat tests" in the current lawsuits, and all of this goes back to status quo.

That too... any AK pistol really, that could easily be drilled for a rear trunnion stock. We also got to take into account that it should be always readily available. It seems that new AK pistols with different manufacturers are being imported and changed monthly. The reason I suggested the M70/M92, is because those pistols have been flowing in from Serbia pretty reliably, and with a constant manufacture/importer, that being CAI. An AK pistol from Arsenal, would also be another good choice, since there now based out of Las Vegas in the United States.

 

[erwos]

Know what else burns me up?

WA state just passed their SBR legalization bill 95-3. Just waiting on the gov's signature. *sigh*

 

[TNW]

To be honest, and as I stated in a previous post... Yes, by reading the law you could potential read it that SBR's also fall under the ALG list. However, the fact that the PSA 5-101 subtitle (same subtitle as the Assualt Long Gun/Assualt Weapon rifle list) defines anything under 16 inches as a "handgun", makes more sense to interpret all SBR's as handguns. This is what MSP has also appeared to have done, hence the exclusion of the ALG list in MSP advisory. Although, as you know under CR 4-301 subtitle, which has different definitions for firearms, or the lack thereof, that the semi-automatic rifle copycat clauses also apply to SBR's.

After going over this sh!t, again, again, and again... and yes still potential f-ing it up. But, I think this time, along with the MSP advisory not including the ALG list, we got this pile of BS down. I personally wouldn't have any reservations about getting the DD Mk 18 upper (non-HBAR) for a post 10/1 SBR build. But as the catch goes, I am not a lawyer.

My head hurts.

From the MSP advisory.

V. Transfer
Public Safety Article (“PS”) § 5-101(r) defines “regulated firearm” to include a “handgun” which
is defined in § 5-101(n)(1) to mean “a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.” Therefore, if
a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun has a barrel length of less than 16 inches, the firearm is
a “handgun” and subject to the application, background check and other requirements relating to the
transfer of “regulated firearms” under Public Safety Article Title 5, Subtitle 1 .

I think I see what you're saying... What does the general consensus seem to be? So form 1 SBRs are good to go with the standard NFA paperwork right? They can just not be transferred in state?

 

[clandestine]

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf

CPL Edwards replied to my OAL Letter. It has a confidentiality clause so I can't post it but he did say the OAL is 100% measured by ATF Standards.

He sent this link above.

 

[swinokur]

Freakin' troublemaker...

 

[Sticky]

How convenient.. and typical...

We are sorry, but the page you requested wasn’t found at this location.

Where the heck is the 'dog chasing it's tail' smiley???

 

[Sticky]

Ah.. fixed it for you... remove the CPL at the end of the link..

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf

 

[clandestine]

Ah.. fixed it for you... remove the CPL at the end of the link..

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf

Sorry, I sent it from my phone. I typed CPL twice, once in the wrong place.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[clandestine]

Freakin' troublemaker...

1 Day response too.

 

[TNW]

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdfCPL

CPL Edwards replied to my OAL Letter. It has a confidentiality clause so I can't post it but he did say the OAL is 100% measured by ATF Standards.

He sent this link above.

Would it be reasonable to ask for a response that could be publicly known?

 

[clandestine]

Would it be reasonable to ask for a response that could be publicly known?

He didn't specifically say it was a private response BUT it has a clause at the bottom of the email saying no duplication or copying without express consent.

Ill ask him if I can post it on the Scotts Gunsmithing website I do work on.