No more SBRs

[ar450]

Actually just fixed it. Magpul str stock. 29 1/4" now.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

Actually just fixed it. Magpul str stock. 29 1/4" now.

I know with different buffer tubes and stocks on ARs you can pick-up or loss an 1" or so.

Now back to which definition is in which subtitle.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

The definition for the copycat code says it only applies to semi-auto rifles (and SBR isn't defined as a handgun in 4-301).

Non-"assault pistol" Handguns are not defined or regulated by 4-301

-Jim

guess there really is no logic in law after all if taken as a whole..

Being a system engineer is my mental block, i suppose. We lay down a framework and then fill it in and flow down as a system. If we wrote mission requirements, the concept of operations and context diagrams like they write laws, nothing would ever make it to the build and certainly never fit together and meet the stakeholders expectations. This patchwork law approach is like one of those old houses with 2,567,378 additions that have nothing in common with the original the structure. Maybe due to haste and politics, but it's a mess. Noone would dare to "reform" this system.

Back to my earlier conclusion, they HAD to be laughing when they drew up the advisory, it's a rifle and a pistol. Ha!

 

[ar450]

Thanks again!

 

[clandestine]

it does have a flash hider. 28 1/4" without it

Have one pinned and your fine. Something like a YHM Q.D. mount will allow installation of a Silencer or a Shield Device like this:

and this:

or a YHM 7.62 Q.D. Sound Suppressor

 

[SB281 Blaster]

When I wrote MSP in January about SBRs being handguns and mutually exclusive of rifles, I pulled the definitions from Criminal Code and applied them to Public Safety hoping it would not come up. Well, it looks like it did, but quite honestly it is very sloppy law writing to have inconsistent or incomplete definitions between articles. If SBRs are absent by definition, then the law should not apply in that article. Likewise, at a minimum, if a definition exists in a different article, then that definition should apply where one is lacking. I am not a lawyer, but it's seems to me there should be some legal argument available here.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

Was typing when you posted SNI. We are on the same page.

 

[Kingjamez]

I just got done reading Public Safety Article 5, Subtitle 1 (all of it). And Public Safety Article 5, Subtitle 401. I think these sections are inclusive of all of the law on the Handgun Roster.

I still don't find ANY mention of a prohibition on transferring or receiving a handgun (SBR and SBS DOES apply) that is NOT on the roster. It is quite clear that a handgun not on the roster can not be: " manufactured for distribution or sale, or sold or offered for sale in Maryland", but buying one out of state, and transferring it into a FFL w/SOT may be good to go. Of course, you would need to have a HQL, and you'd have to fill out a 77r, you'd need a bore lock (if it's post 2002) but the handgun roster shouldn't apply for a transfer.

This sounds too easy....
Can one of our legal-brains figure out what I've missed?

-Jim

 

[SB281 Blaster]

Did it get sorted out in this thread about a pre-October stripped lower registered as an "O" being OK to SBR under 29" on a Form 4 pre SB281 2013?

 

[clandestine]

I just got done reading Public Safety Article 5, Subtitle 1 (all of it). And Public Safety Article 5, Subtitle 401. I think these sections are inclusive of all of the law on the Handgun Roster.

I still don't find ANY mention of a prohibition on transferring or receiving a handgun (SBR and SBS DOES apply) that is NOT on the roster. It is quite clear that a handgun not on the roster can not be: " manufactured for distribution or sale, or sold or offered for sale in Maryland", but buying one out of state, and transferring it into a FFL w/SOT may be good to go. Of course, you would need to have a HQL, and you'd have to fill out a 77r, you'd need a bore lock (if it's post 2002) but the handgun roster shouldn't apply for a transfer.

This sounds too easy....
Can one of our legal-brains figure out what I've missed?

-Jim

A Lawsuit will be needed for that. I have attempted to do transfers before where I forgot to check if a handgun was on the roster (And they were not). The MSP kicks back the 77r. They will not process it.

The only exemptions I have seen were pre 1985 guns which the law allows.

 

[clandestine]

Did it get sorted out in this thread about a pre-October stripped lower registered as an "O" being OK to SBR under 29" on a Form 4 pre SB281 2013?

It appears to be ok from my read if the Lower was purchased as Regulated before 10/1/2013 or on a P.O. afterward. An AR15 receiver is treated as BANNED my the MSP currently, therefore one must treat it as a BANNED ALG.

Since the law says a BANNED ALG can not be a copycat the OAL and evil features go out the window.

This is all assuming that YOU are going to Form 1

 

[SB281 Blaster]

I just got done reading Public Safety Article 5, Subtitle 1 (all of it). And Public Safety Article 5, Subtitle 401. I think these sections are inclusive of all of the law on the Handgun Roster.

I still don't find ANY mention of a prohibition on transferring or receiving a handgun (SBR and SBS DOES apply) that is NOT on the roster. It is quite clear that a handgun not on the roster can not be: " manufactured for distribution or sale, or sold or offered for sale in Maryland", but buying one out of state, and transferring it into a FFL w/SOT may be good to go. Of course, you would need to have a HQL, and you'd have to fill out a 77r, you'd need a bore lock (if it's post 2002) but the handgun roster shouldn't apply for a transfer.

This sounds too easy....
Can one of our legal-brains figure out what I've missed?



-Jim

I think the point of sale is considered at the MD FFL when it leaves his book. As an FFL I have never transferred a modern handgun not on the Roster.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

It appears to be ok from my read if the Lower was purchased as Regulated before 10/1/2013 or on a P.O. afterward. An AR15 receiver is treated as BANNED my the MSP currently, therefore one must treat it as a BANNED ALG.

Since the law says a BANNED ALG can not be a copycat the OAL and evil features go out the window.

This is all assuming that YOU are going to Form 1

Thanks, meant Form 1, and Roster does not apply because I can never transfer it in this state anyway. Just like making a personal AR-15 pistol from a pre-October Bushmaster stripped lower recorded as an "O".

 

[LeadSled1]

I think you meant to copy in this section of CR 4-201:

(h) "Shotgun" means a weapon that is:
(1) designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; and
(2) designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore one or more projectiles for each pull of the trigger.

Curious as to where they place rifled shotguns designed for saboted slugs?

 

[erwos]

Help me understand where you contention is.

I see what you're getting at, which is that rifle is only defined in 4-2XX, which means that they can define it how they want in 4-3XX.

 

[bobthefisher]

I see what you're getting at, which is that rifle is only defined in 4-2XX, which means that they can define it how they want in 4-3XX.

I see that now as well... unfortunately. Which is also why in PSA 5-101, SBR's can be considered NOT to be an "Assault Weapon", as a handgun is again defined in that subtitle as a firearm with a barrel less then 16 inches. Although, when they define "assault weapons" in that article, they never use the word "rifle", but I'm guessing MSP played it safe (somewhat), and just excluded SBR's from being "Assault Long Guns", which is the phrasing used the criminal articles and subtitles, but cited from the PSA 5-101 for the actual rifle list. Well... at least you don't have to make your AR-15 pistol into AR-15 HBAR SBR, just abide by the copycat clauses. Yeesh!

This is so f-ing crazy. MD law changes definitions from subtitle to subtitle, back and forth, and has now made SBR's and SBS's fall under the regulated handgun restrictions and the semi-automatic rifle/shotgun copycat clauses.

Unbelievable! I wonder what a judge would make of all this, constantly changing definitions for a singular item throughout MD Public Safety and Criminal Law Articles.

To hell with this state, and its waste of $125 million dollars of our tax money for a screwed up health care law. Mind blasted!

 

[TNW]

I see that now as well... unfortunately. Which is also why in PSA 5-101, SBR's can be considered NOT to be an "Assault Weapon", as a handgun is again defined in that subtitle as a firearm with a barrel less then 16 inches. Although, when they define "assault weapons" in that article, they never use the word "rifle", but I'm guessing MSP played it safe (somewhat), and just excluded SBR's from being "Assault Long Guns", which is the phrasing used the criminal articles and subtitles, but cited from the PSA 5-101 for the actual rifle list. Well... at least you don't have to make your AR-15 pistol into AR-15 HBAR SBR, just abide by the copycat clauses. Yeesh!

This is so f-ing crazy. MD law changes definitions from subtitle to subtitle, back and forth, and has now made SBR's and SBS's fall under the regulated handgun restrictions and the semi-automatic rifle/shotgun copycat clauses.

Unbelievable! I wonder what a judge would make of all this, constantly changing definitions for a singular item throughout MD Public Safety and Criminal Law Articles.

To hell with this state, and its waste of $125 million dollars of our tax money for a screwed up health care law. Mind blasted!

Yep. Glad I waited and didn't buy that DD MK18 upper that I want...

 

[bobthefisher]

Yep. Glad I waited and didn't buy that DD MK18 upper that I want...

Why? That's a 10.3 inch barrel, I'm sure you could easily make that 29" in OAL.

 

[erwos]

It's not all bad. By defining it themselves, I would assume the MSP opens themselves up to challenges on their definition, how they came up with it, and whether it's consistent with legislative intent.

 

[TNW]

Why? That's a 10.3 inch barrel, I'm sure you could easily make that 29" in OAL.

Not HBAR:/ it's going on a post 10/1 Colt HBAR so I need a 10.3 heavy barrel.