This happened today, 03/27/2014....CONFISCATION

[Biggfoot44]

Ragnar beat me to it on the proposed legislation from this session.

The discusion has focoused on the speculation about PBJ being at issue ( and PBJ generally).

There were other factors changed Oct 1 '13 , but until we have more feedback , it's all un-scientific WAG .

 

[RoadDawg]

PBJ Simplified:

Probation is not given to nor is it accepted by an innocent party.
IF you agree to probation... You ARE pleading guilty with the understanding that no "Judgement" (read "Penalty") will be leveed against you, as long as you complete the probation period without another offense for which you are found guilty.


PBJ IS a self entered GUILTY finding in the eyes of Maryland Courts. The only advantage to the defendant is that they don't get jail time IF they complete the terms of the probation.

This is why the MSP can come get the guns.

 

[august1410]

PBJ Simplified:

Probation is not given to nor is it accepted by an innocent party.
IF you agree to probation... You ARE pleading guilty with the understanding that no "Judgement" (read "Penalty") will be leveed against you, as long as you complete the probation period without another offense for which you are found guilty.


PBJ IS a self entered GUILTY finding in the eyes of Maryland Courts. The only advantage to the defendant is that they don't get jail time IF they complete the terms of the probation.

This is why the MSP can come get the guns.

Thank you for simplifying it. I had thought it was something along those lines, but my brain could not process it last night.

 

[Maverick0313]

QUOTE=RoadDawg;3113292]PBJ Simplified:

Probation is not given to nor is it accepted by an innocent party.
IF you agree to probation... You ARE pleading guilty with the understanding that no "Judgement" (read "Penalty") will be leveed against you, as long as you complete the probation period without another offense for which you are found guilty.


PBJ IS a self entered GUILTY finding in the eyes of Maryland Courts. The only advantage to the defendant is that they don't get jail time IF they complete the terms of the probation.

This is why the MSP can come get the guns.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this post. Clears up any questions.

 

[Mark75H]

PBJ Simplified:

Probation is not given to nor is it accepted by an innocent party.
IF you agree to probation... You ARE pleading guilty with the understanding that no "Judgement" (read "Penalty") will be leveed against you, as long as you complete the probation period without another offense for which you are found guilty.


PBJ IS a self entered GUILTY finding in the eyes of Maryland Courts. The only advantage to the defendant is that they don't get jail time IF they complete the terms of the probation.

This is why the MSP can come get the guns.

No, the retroactive change is why ... otherwise they would have been doing this years ago

 

[Ab_Normal]

PBJ Simplified:

Probation is not given to nor is it accepted by an innocent party.
IF you agree to probation... You ARE pleading guilty with the understanding that no "Judgement" (read "Penalty") will be leveed against you, as long as you complete the probation period without another offense for which you are found guilty.


PBJ IS a self entered GUILTY finding in the eyes of Maryland Courts. The only advantage to the defendant is that they don't get jail time IF they complete the terms of the probation.

This is why the MSP can come get the guns.

Do you have a link to where that is codified in Md. law? I didn't see it. Thanks.

 

[Clovis]

I am going to state a few facts. Too much information here would not be appropriate. I am just going to say what needs to be said.

1). Today at 6:00 am MSP knocked on the door of a friend. He was already at work and his wife answered the door. MSP was there to CONFISCATE a couple firearms.
2). My buddy's wife called him right away and he came home.
3). They were there for his 26 year old son's recently purchased regulated firearms.
4). The young man was also at work already which is irrelevant because he does not live at this address now.
5). MSP did NOT ask to see any of my buddy's firearms.
6). The young man bought and waited for NOT DISAPROVED paperwork and picked up said regulated firearm last December.
7). Young man picked up another regulated firearm a couple days ago.
8). Said young man keeps most of his firearms at Dad's house because he has not moved his safe to his house yet.
9). Police only wanted these two regulated firearms. They let my buddy keep his son's unregulated firearms since the young man does not reside at this address.
10). Young man has a C&R licence obtained a few months ago.
11). Yes, he had a PBJ when he was 17. I am not giving details.
12). My buddy and his son now have Rusty Shackleford's IP info.
13). If the kid is smart, he will call the man.


I did not post this to get a bunch of responses about the law. We will let the young man deal with all that stuff with a professional, thank you.

I just wanted you guys (and gals) to know that this happed to someone I know.



Lastly.......NO, neither Dad nor son are members of this forum.

If I understand what the OP is saying here, the young person picked up a regulated firearm in the last few days...did he have a HQL? If so, the MSP overlooked his PBJ something like at least 3 times. Haven't read the entire thread so apologies if I missed something.

I do like the notion of demanding a retrial for a PBJ in this instance on the grounds of altered consequences...or something like that, at least it sounds good.

 

[Mark75H]

If I understand what the OP is saying here, the young person picked up a regulated firearm in the last few days...did he have a HQL? If so, the MSP overlooked his PBJ something like at least 3 times. Haven't read the entire thread so apologies if I missed something.

I do like the notion of demanding a retrial for a PBJ in this instance on the grounds of altered consequences...or something like that, at least it sounds good.

No, the law is just plain unconstitutional as ex post facto, it needs to be revoked

It would be exactly the same as lowering the speed limit on I-95 and giving you a ticket tomorrow for exceeding the speed limit last week - and everyone should be just as outraged ... even antis

If the MD legislature is allowed to make ex post facto laws, the MD revenue problem is solved

 

[2SAM22]

PBJ Simplified:

Probation is not given to nor is it accepted by an innocent party.
IF you agree to probation... You ARE pleading guilty with the understanding that no "Judgement" (read "Penalty") will be leveed against you, as long as you complete the probation period without another offense for which you are found guilty.


PBJ IS a self entered GUILTY finding in the eyes of Maryland Courts. The only advantage to the defendant is that they don't get jail time IF they complete the terms of the probation.

This is why the MSP can come get the guns.

I think you are mistaken. A PBJ is not a guilty plea nor finding. The Defendant is simply agreeing to abide by terms of probation - before a judgement is made.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Source: http://www.ccc-law.com/probation-before-judgment-in-maryland/. Emphasis mine.

What is a Probation Before Judgment (PBJ) Disposition in Maryland?

After a defendant enters a guilty plea, or is found guilty by the judge or jury, the next step in a case is sentencing. However, in some cases, the judge strikes the guilty finding and offers the defendant Probation Before Judgment, or a PBJ (not the sandwich).

Unlike a guilty disposition, a PBJ is NOT a conviction, but requires a period of supervised or unsupervised probation. A PBJ is NOT a conviction, but requires a period of supervised or unsupervised probation. The defendant must successfully complete the probation. That means he or she must comply with all of the conditions the judge imposes, such as community service, and not get into any more trouble.

If the defendant successfully completes his or her probation, the defendant may be able to file an expungement request and have the case go away. Unless the defendant files for an expungement, the case stays on Maryland’s Judiciary Case Search where anyone can look up the case.

Since a PBJ is not a conviction, the defendant can truthfully say he or she has never been convicted of a crime.

 

[2SAM22]

Maybe my memory fails me. I don't remember the Def. pleading guilty in every PBJ, but maybe they did and I was too busy beating feet out of the courtroom myself. I've put that chapter of my life on the shelf. It was fun, but now I'm done.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Maybe my memory fails me. I don't remember the Def. pleading guilty in every PBJ, but maybe they did and I was too busy beating feet out of the courtroom myself. I've put that chapter of my life on the shelf. It was fun, but now I'm done.

The guilty plea is stricken by the judge, so essentially there is no record of guilt admission or conviction.

Simmons must use this option a lot for his clients.

 

[2SAM22]

The MD probation order is here:

www.courts.state.md.us/courtforms/internal/ccdc026.pdf‎

All standard conditions is the one most routinely checked. See condition A6.

 

[Name Taken]

Maybe my memory fails me. I don't remember the Def. pleading guilty in every PBJ, but maybe they did and I was too busy beating feet out of the courtroom myself. I've put that chapter of my life on the shelf. It was fun, but now I'm done.

After the testimony or "Statement of Facts" are read the judge will typically say "I find you guilty but will strike the finding and offer you PBJ". This of course is after their attorney gets done spewing how nice of a guy this repeat offender is and how since XYZ crime he's been in rehab, going to church, not robbing people.

PBJ is NOT a guilty finding and in fact you give up your right to appeal a PBJ since it isn't a guilty finding.

The above is obviously not what happens in EVERY court case as some folks run their court room without dignity and responsibility. I've seen cases where the judge, after testimony, had found the defendant guilty...during sentencing the judge had a change of heart, called both States Attorney/Def. Attorney to the bench for a secret meeting and the S/A then offers a Nolle Pros.....this was after the judge already found the person guilty.

 

[2SAM22]

After the testimony or "Statement of Facts" are read the judge will typically say "I find you guilty but will strike the finding and offer you PBJ". This of course is after their attorney gets done spewing how nice of a guy this repeat offender is and how since XYZ crime he's been in rehab, going to church, not robbing people.

PBJ is NOT a guilty finding and in fact you give up your right to appeal a PBJ since it isn't a guilty finding.

The above is obviously not what happens in EVERY court case as some folks run their court room without dignity and responsibility. I've seen cases where the judge, after testimony, had found the defendant guilty...during sentencing the judge had a change of heart, called both States Attorney/Def. Attorney to the bench for a secret meeting and the S/A then offers a Nolle Pros.....this was after the judge already found the person guilty.

You're right about the guilty plea. It's coming back to me in a horrible tidal wave of memories about the job, court, department politics, etc. Don't ever do that to me again! Haha!

 

[Trbo6gn]

My question is this...Two of the Democratic Governor candidates are talking about implimenting a law that would make it possible to remove non violent criminal convictions from a persons record in order to prevent them from being "discriminated" against. How would that apply here?

 

[Mr H]

That'll go away once they realize it might help gun owners.

 

[2SAM22]

That'll go away once they realize it might help gun owners.

Never fear, they'll carve out a "special" exemption for you all.

 

[Lou45]

Doesn't a person sign an agreement with the State when they take a PBJ plea? If they were not informed at the time that they would lose their 2A rights, they should be able to sue because the state has changed the terms of the agreement. They weren't found guilty, for heaven's sakes.

After SB281 became law of the land, word came down from the AG's office to NOT inform those that receive a PBJ that the PBJ could and would affect their 2A rights. Kinda' like dirty pool.

 

[lx1x]

After SB281 became law of the land, word came down from the AG's office to NOT inform those that receive a PBJ that the PBJ could and would affect their 2A rights. Kinda' like dirty pool.

It somewhat goes to our advantage don't you think?

New buyers not paying close attention to the new law.. now learning how stupid it is.