ACG day - pistol range

[Moon]

There are plans for developing another pistol range at the AGC that will allow for more active forms of pistol shooting. It is one of the capital improvements and like all things, takes both time and money.

As for never seeing the machinery behind the berms, it all depends on who does your range orientation. I suspect you did not see the pits at the 200 yd range or get to see how the wobble trap or other trap houses operate either.

I've seen the pits at the 200 yd range, and been behind the berm at the pistol range. Just never seen either used. There's no doubt they have use, and since I'm not the only one that uses the range, I can't complain that they want to accommodate as many shooters as possible. I just wish the range actually did accommodate as many shooters as possible.


I've seen the wobble trap used a couple times, though more often have seen guys using their own clay throwers because the wobble isn't working that day.

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

There was some event (Police L Match I believe) at the AGC this past Sunday and the target machinery got a work out then. As others have mentioned, Garrison sponsors a Bulls-eye shoot every Tuesday night and it gets used there.

I have used it for a few of my classes and for a brief demonstration of bulls-eye for my classes and members of Monumental.

 

[Maverick0313]

There are plans for developing another pistol range at the AGC that will allow for more active forms of pistol shooting. It is one of the capital improvements and like all things, takes both time and money.

As for never seeing the machinery behind the berms, it all depends on who does your range orientation. I suspect you did not see the pits at the 200 yd range or get to see how the wobble trap or other trap houses operate either.

You said it all!!!

 

[myuen021078]

Thats a great site with some nice looking products. I can't find what width they are however, will standard AGC width targets fit in these stands?

I just got my Tacstrike arch frame target carrier from the UPS man and I measured 15.5" from middle of each hole. Its just a little bit wider than the standard 14" holes in the ground at the 100 yard range, but I am sure you can use this target stand on both the pistol and 100 yard range.

 

[Erno86]

The way I see it, and I don't think I'm alone, is that there is not much use for a 50 yd pistol range. Instead of a berm in the middle of a 50 yd range that gets struck by just about every novice shooter, or induces yahoos to shoot at it for the fun of it, the members might be better served by a 25 yd pistol range. It does appear to be a pretty big waste of space for a contraption that is rarely used. Just one man's opinion.

"Not much use for a 50 yard pistol range" You've got to be kidding. No offense...but may I suggest that if you practice enough...you'd probably get bored hitting targets at 25 yards and demand to know why there is not a 50 pistol range. In this case...AGC has a pistol range up to 50 yards. Try to think of it as a challenge ---that is --- to be efficient in hitting a bullseye target at 50 yards.

I like shooting target's at the 50 yard pistol range, including targets placed at 50 yards ---in fact --- I like to shoot my pistol's at targets over at 100 yard Barnes Range, including some more distant pistol trigger time over at the 200 yard range.

If a serious or novice pistol shooter cannot hit the 50 yard AGC pistol berm with targets set at appropriate heights at the appropriate distances, including 7 yards, he or she is woefully inaccurate; and needs to practice, or receive training, till they can at least hit the 50 berm. Say if a shooter has a target set-up at 7 yards, and still have rounds hit the 25 yard berm, that shooter has a target set up too low, or is not using the proper stance or technique. With the fact that if he hits the 25 yard berm, his bullet will still not be able to impact the 50 yard berm. So...I still can't see you're reasoning as to why the 25 yard berm is useless, and also why the 50 yard berm is needless.



I use my own moving swivel target with the manual use of ropes a pulleys set in the 25 yard pistol frame mount, over at the AGC pistol range. You can set up your own swivel rig set-up, either manually or electronically at the same spot.

 

[storm1969]

sounds like I need to join an agc club and get more pistol time....

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

sounds like I need to join an agc club and get more pistol time....

The AGC has 29 clubs. I am sure you will find one of them that matches your shooting interests.

As I have stated many times on MDS, the important thing is to join a club and then come out an shoot!

 

[Moon]

"Not much use for a 50 yard pistol range" You've got to be kidding. No offense...but may I suggest that if you practice enough...you'd probably get bored hitting targets at 25 yards and demand to know why there is not a 50 pistol range. In this case...AGC has a pistol range up to 50 yards. Try to think of it as a challenge ---that is --- to be efficient in hitting a bullseye target at 50 yards.

I like shooting target's at the 50 yard pistol range, including targets placed at 50 yards ---in fact --- I like to shoot my pistol's at targets over at 100 yard Barnes Range, including some more distant pistol trigger time over at the 200 yard range.

If a serious or novice pistol shooter cannot hit the 50 yard AGC pistol berm with targets set at appropriate heights at the appropriate distances, including 7 yards, he or she is woefully inaccurate; and needs to practice, or receive training, till they can at least hit the 50 berm. Say if a shooter has a target set-up at 7 yards, and still have rounds hit the 25 yard berm, that shooter has a target set up too low, or is not using the proper stance or technique. With the fact that if he hits the 25 yard berm, his bullet will still not be able to impact the 50 yard berm. So...I still can't see you're reasoning as to why the 25 yard berm is useless, and also why the 50 yard berm is needless.



I use my own moving swivel target with the manual use of ropes a pulleys set in the 25 yard pistol frame mount, over at the AGC pistol range. You can set up your own swivel rig set-up, either manually or electronically at the same spot.

You're missing the point.

It's great that you like to shoot at 50 yards, but that really isn't the only way to use a pistol, or the way a great deal of pistol shooters want to practice or compete.

 

[Indiana Jones]

You're missing the point.

It's great that you like to shoot at 50 yards, but that really isn't the only way to use a pistol, or the way a great deal of pistol shooters want to practice or compete.

I agree. 50 yard Fudding is fun for about 15 rounds then more practical training is how I want to spend my ammo. Between that, and the .22 bullseye shooters are why I left. We set up all the way on our own side of the rifle range one day because it was EMPTY. They chose the bench directly next to us. Then had the nerve to bitch when we started shooting the Barrett. Fairys. Between that and the "i am god and have the powers of membership revocation" RSO's, I found a much better place to shoot.

OP, try starting closer then working out. I used to have the same problem.

 

[Erno86]

You're missing the point.

It's great that you like to shoot at 50 yards, but that really isn't the only way to use a pistol, or the way a great deal of pistol shooters want to practice or compete.

Shooting at 50 yards...is not the only way I "use" a pistol at the AGC of Marriottsville.. So please tell me...what are your various preferences for pistol practice and/or competition...IDPA shoots, Three Gun, Holster Draw? I hope it's not shooting at rocks on top of the 25 yard pistol berm.

Cheers,

Erno

 

[Moon]

Shooting at 50 yards...is not the only way I "use" a pistol at the AGC of Marriottsville..

I didn't say it was.

So please tell me...what are your various preferences for pistol practice and/or competition...IDPA shoots, Three Gun, Holster Draw?

Why?

I hope it's not shooting at rocks on top of the 25 yard pistol berm.

It's not. I don't see any way a reasonable person could draw that conclusion from anything I have said here.

 

[Minuteman]

I like bullseye shooting. I like IDPA and closer range stuff better. Good to hear AGC is considering a more practical/tactical setup.

Attempt at humor follows:
Did I overhear in this thread that there might be a group tshirt buy?

Let me guess...

 

[plinkerton]

So today was a good day at AGC, I got rifle, and pistol time in. Rifle time, was perfect. but with three different pistols at 25 yards...ugh. I hit the target, mostly, but out of 18 mag (3 per firearm) I hit the center only 10 times (the rest were all over the target) :-( WTF...I was not shooting hand cannons either, so I felt a bit sad by that, I guess I need alot more trigger time.

You can easily build or buy a usable frame to shoot closer. I use a PVC base with my rifle range frame.

Do most of your training with your target much closer. I read that the majority of shootings are from 0 - 21 feet (~7 yards).

I have been shooting in the Tuesday night league since January. Because of the trigger control I have learned from Ed and Mike my short distance (3 to 12 yards) has improved dramatically. Any mistakes or bad habits are magnified at 25 yards. My experience, YMMV.

Agree. I understand how the range is designed, and it's fine for that limited purpose - but the space isn't used anywhere near it's potential.

Probably not, but it is easy enough to setup closer.

sounds like I need to join an agc club and get more pistol time....

Garrison meeting second Tuesday every month, show up for the bullseye match at 6:00, then stay for the meeting.

You're missing the point.

It's great that you like to shoot at 50 yards, but that really isn't the only way to use a pistol, or the way a great deal of pistol shooters want to practice or compete.

See above about short distance improvement.

Until January I assumed I could NEVER shoot a pistol at 50 yds, when I started participating in the bullseye league I was wondering WTF I was doing shooting a pistol at 25 yards. Now I do it a couple times a week, and have even taught a couple other people what I have learned.

 

[Moon]

See above about short distance improvement.

Until January I assumed I could NEVER shoot a pistol at 50 yds, when I started participating in the bullseye league I was wondering WTF I was doing shooting a pistol at 25 yards. Now I do it a couple times a week, and have even taught a couple other people what I have learned.

25 yd or 50 yd shooting is fine, if that's what you like to do. It just isn't a good idea to have a mini berm, that is never intended to be hit, in the middle of the field of fire.

 

[Tactics]

I love the AGC and I would attend every IDPA style match they host. I heard they ran a private 3 Gun match in the 200.

Just to reiterate I'd love to do some dynamic shooting at the AGC. Any berm will do!

 

[damifinowfish]

Let me be serious for a minute.

The 25 yard berm is NOT AN IMPACT AREA. I call it a grassy knoll. As per the range rules ALL ROUNDS MUST HIT THE IMPACT AREA. That is the dirt area at the end of the range.

When you post a target check the height from the firing line. Take your hand and extent your arm, extend your pointing finger and point at the center of the target. Move your hand sideways off your target and look at what you are pointing at. Are you pointing at green or dirt? If you are pointing at green your target needs to be adjusted. HAVE EVERY ONE IN YOUR GROUP DO THIS!
Different height shooters will send the bullet down range at different angles and this will cause different areas of impact. This applies for ALL ranges.

Hint hint
The area between 1 & 25 yards is sloped for drainage. The high side is the AGC main entrance side. The low side is the flag pole side. There is a good two foot difference from side to side. If you place your target on the flag pole side your frame needs to be a good 8 foot high.

By buying an Range Badge you have agreed to follow ALL RANGE RULES! Read them often as they are about to change, Read them often, Read them often, Read them often, Read them often. You would be surprise the amount of people that have not read them.

Ask anyone that has been a member for more then ten years and they will tell you that the range is becoming more shooter friendly. In the last ten years they have allowed shorter distance shooting on both the pistol and 100 yard range, Steel targets, reactive targets, Class three, Deer hunting on the property, and an action/practice range is in the works.

Be careful as a few Asshats can easily change all the progress we have made. It has taken us thousands of baby steps to open up the limited shooting we had when I first joined the range some twenty years ago.

If you have a complaint talk to your club officials about it. Come to a trustee meeting. Email the Executive board of the AGC, (AGC web site has all the contact info). Let the RSO's know about the problem so they call help you with it. The RSO's phone number is on the back of your Range Badge.(There are now 5 staff RSO to serve you) But just don't bitch about it on a forum where nothing can be done.

 

[Threeband]

There are plans for developing another pistol range at the AGC that will allow for more active forms of pistol shooting. It is one of the capital improvements and like all things, takes both time and money.

...

...
the range is becoming more shooter friendly. ... an action/practice range is in the works.

...

Can either of you tell us a bit more about this?

Will there be more than one pistol bay, perhaps a large bay and several smaller one's? Where would it be located? What sort of time frame are we looking at for completion? Before 2020?

Please please pleasepleaseplease please tell more!

 

[damifinowfish]

Can either of you tell us a bit more about this?

Will there be more than one pistol bay, perhaps a large bay and several smaller one's? Where would it be located? What sort of time frame are we looking at for completion? Before 2020?

Please please pleasepleaseplease please tell more!

In the works is all I know. It takes time to plan something like this out to have a good proposal for the trustees to consider. If a poor plan is presented it will end up in the trash and be the death of the idea.

Chat with me the next time our paths cross

 

[Moon]

Let me be serious for a minute.

The 25 yard berm is NOT AN IMPACT AREA. I call it a grassy knoll. As per the range rules ALL ROUNDS MUST HIT THE IMPACT AREA. That is the dirt area at the end of the range.

When you post a target check the height from the firing line. Take your hand and extent your arm, extend your pointing finger and point at the center of the target. Move your hand sideways off your target and look at what you are pointing at. Are you pointing at green or dirt? If you are pointing at green your target needs to be adjusted. HAVE EVERY ONE IN YOUR GROUP DO THIS!
Different height shooters will send the bullet down range at different angles and this will cause different areas of impact. This applies for ALL ranges.

Hint hint
The area between 1 & 25 yards is sloped for drainage. The high side is the AGC main entrance side. The low side is the flag pole side. There is a good two foot difference from side to side. If you place your target on the flag pole side your frame needs to be a good 8 foot high.

By buying an Range Badge you have agreed to follow ALL RANGE RULES! Read them often as they are about to change, Read them often, Read them often, Read them often, Read them often. You would be surprise the amount of people that have not read them.

Ask anyone that has been a member for more then ten years and they will tell you that the range is becoming more shooter friendly. In the last ten years they have allowed shorter distance shooting on both the pistol and 100 yard range, Steel targets, reactive targets, Class three, Deer hunting on the property, and an action/practice range is in the works.

Be careful as a few Asshats can easily change all the progress we have made. It has taken us thousands of baby steps to open up the limited shooting we had when I first joined the range some twenty years ago.

If you have a complaint talk to your club officials about it. Come to a trustee meeting. Email the Executive board of the AGC, (AGC web site has all the contact info). Let the RSO's know about the problem so they call help you with it. The RSO's phone number is on the back of your Range Badge.(There are now 5 staff RSO to serve you) But just don't bitch about it on a forum where nothing can be done.

You're not introducing much new to the discussion, except for RED ALL CAPS. So far, my complaint about the huge mound of danger that runs across the middle of AGC's pistol range has been answered thusly:

• I like shooting 25 and 50 yards
• If you can't shoot 25 or 50 yards, you should practice more
• You shouldn't hit the 25 yard berm
• Some guys were shooting at rocks on top of the 25 yard berm
• If your target is high enough, and you shoot well enough, you won't hit the 25 yard berm
• Shooting at 25 or 50 yards has been great for me
• You can always come by on Tuesday night and shoot at 25 yards
• You don't shoot at rocks on the 25 yard berm, do you?

None of these address the problem, which is that there is a huge mound of danger running across the middle of AGC's pistol range. The bottom line is that if bullets striking something presents a hazard, it shouldn't be on the range.

Based on the responses that try to justify having a 50 yard pistol range with at 3-4 foot high non-impact berm in the middle of it, I don't think complaining about it at an AGC meeting of any sort would be anything other than a waste of time.

Pointing it out here is a waste of time, too, but not nearly as much time gets wasted this way. It took me all of 5 minutes to make this post.

And, if you need an 8 foot tall target frame on the pistol range (which is highly impractical,) why do the range rules not say so, and do you honestly think that a pistol range that requires an 8 foot tall target frame is well-designed?

 

[Threeband]

Your target must be high enough so that the first time your bullet touches Mother Earth, it is in the Impact Area of whatever range you're shooting at.

That is the single blanket rule for all ranges and distances everywhere at the AGC. It applies to the 200 yard High Power Range, the Barnes Range- everywhere.

If your target is too low for your position (say, shooting standing at 25 yards on the 100 yard line) your bullet will hit the grass around 60 or 80 yards out, plow a little furrow, then skip like a flat rock off a pond, possibly sailing right over that high ridge beyond the berm.

That was happening in the past, forcing the AGC to buy the property beyond the ridge. There are houses back there. You can see faint furrows on the 100 yard line caused by people posting their targets too low. 25 years ago, there was a lot of raw dirt out there.

Because your bullets must strike only in the impact area of the berm, it is irrelevant whether or not there are tomato patches, machinery, or parked motorcycles at the 24 yard line on the pistol range. Your bullets aren't supposed to be hitting that low in any case.

DamifInowfish tried to explain this very, very, very simple concept:

When you post a target check the height from the firing line. Take your hand and extent your arm, extend your pointing finger and point at the center of the target. Move your hand sideways off your target and look at what you are pointing at. Are you pointing at green or dirt? If you are pointing at green your target needs to be adjusted. HAVE EVERY ONE IN YOUR GROUP DO THIS!
Different height shooters will send the bullet down range at different angles and this will cause different areas of impact. This applies for ALL ranges.

This applies for ALL ranges.

Bullets striking in front of the impact area anywhere, 200 yard, 100 yard, 50 yard means ricochets over the ridge, which means lawsuits, which means the range gets shut down permanently.