ACG day - pistol range

[aab23c]

So today was a good day at AGC, I got rifle, and pistol time in. Rifle time, was perfect. but with three different pistols at 25 yards...ugh. I hit the target, mostly, but out of 18 mag (3 per firearm) I hit the center only 10 times (the rest were all over the target) :-( WTF...I was not shooting hand cannons either, so I felt a bit sad by that, I guess I need alot more trigger time.

 

[rbird7282]

25 yards is a pretty good distance for a handgun. You could start closer in until you feel like you need more of a challenge. I have shot at 25 yards before, but I prefer 7-10 yards most times.

 

[aab23c]

Thats how I feel to...10 yards is about right, i was just using the AGC's posts, because I havent gotten my stakes yet to put the target in closer...the pistol range just has an odd burm setup.

 

[54rndball]

Yeah, I need to get some frames to set up targets at 19 yds at AGC. Anyone got a good way to stick it in the ground or have a stand on your target?

 

[myuen021078]

Try this target frame, its a free standing metal base target frame holder http://tacstrike.com/TARGET-CARRIERS/Arch-Frame-Target-Carrier.html, all you need to buy are the 2x1 or 2x2 wood furring strips.

 

[Threeband]

Here is a long thread about target stands at the AGC pistol range. If you sift through it, you'll find it covers several issues involved, and provides important background information.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=77055&highlight=target+stand+pistol


Here is a picture from that thread of a simple target stand you can put anywhere you want. Just make sure you post your targets high enough so bullets hit the 50 yard berm on the pistol range.

I find at 7 yards or so I need to post targets 5 or 6 feet high(my frames are 7 feet tall). Using a similar stand on the 100 yard Barnes Range, I can post some targets at about 6 feet, and some lower. I shoot standing on the high targets, and kneel to shoot the lower targets, and thus keep my bullet impacts in the 100 yard berm. You really can't shoot kneeling on the Pistol range, because of the "counter top" being in the way.


Unfortunately, the AGC pistol range has been stuck in the handgun-shooting mentality of 100 years ago. Here is a huge 50 position range, much bigger than most rifle ranges, which is entirely dedicated to this archaic style of shooting.

Bullseye shooting is fine, but the AGC allows absolutely nothing else, and wastes an enormous amount of potential range space in the process. Why is the AGC pistol range so under-utilized?

I think many people today would be more interested in these styles of pistol shooting:


Steel Shooting at Delta, Pennsylvania:



Fun Shoot at York IWLA, Pennsylvania:


IDPA at TCSC, Maryland


USPSA at TCSC


Lots of action shooting close by, but none at the AGC. It really is a pathetic waste of resources.

 

[IlikeNFA]

Try this target frame, its a free standing metal base target frame holder http://tacstrike.com/TARGET-CARRIERS...t-Carrier.html, all you need to buy are the 2x1 or 2x2 wood furring strips.

Thats a great site with some nice looking products. I can't find what width they are however, will standard AGC width targets fit in these stands?

 

[Moon]

Thats how I feel to...10 yards is about right, i was just using the AGC's posts, because I havent gotten my stakes yet to put the target in closer...the pistol range just has an odd burm setup.

I'm with you. 50 yards is overkill for a pistol range, since you can just go over to the rifle range, if you just want to miss all the time. Even so, the berm at 25 yards just introduces an unnecessary hazard. People shooting at a 7 yard target, especially new shooters, are going to hit that useless berm.

 

[Minuteman]

Do most of your training with your target much closer. I read that the majority of shootings are from 0 - 21 feet (~7 yards).

Check these out:

http://www.virginiacops.org/articles/shooting/combat.htm

http://firearmusernetwork.com/2012/01/20/shooting-distance-and-survivial/

 

[Pwilliams1]

The pistol range at agc could definitely use some work.

That range is the main reason I keep my membership at a range in PA as well. Much better for handguns.

 

[Threeband]

I'm with you. 50 yards is overkill for a pistol range, since you can just go over to the rifle range, if you just want to miss all the time. Even so, the berm at 25 yards just introduces an unnecessary hazard. People shooting at a 7 yard target, especially new shooters, are going to hit that useless berm.

That "useless berm at 25 yards" is the primary target line. Although the range has a berm at 50 yards, and can accommodate targets at that range, it is really designed for bullseye competition at 25 yards. Did you not notice all those steel target frames at 25 yards? You can wire or zip tie a 32" square of cardboard to one and post a single target. Or remove the frame, place a single wooden stick in the socket, attach a piece of cardboard, and post a dozen targets if you like.

That "useless berm at 25 yards" is intended to protect the machinery from bullet impacts. Those steel frames are mechanically geared to conceal and expose the targets used in competition. "Your time begins when your target appears."


If the berm were not there, you still would have to post your targets high at seven yards in order to ensure that they do not hit the ground before that 50 yard berm. If they hit the ground in front of the berm, they can ricochet like a stone skipping off water, and skip right over that high ridge beyond.

Targets should be close to the berm to prevent those ricochets. If your target is at ten yards, and the berm is forty yards beyond that, then you have to post your targets very high to avoid ricochets.

The AGC pistol range is very well designed and narrowly specialized for formal bullseye competition at 25 yards. It is badly designed for other types of handgun shooting. Look at the action shooting videos I posted. That shooting is mainly done in pistol bays, deep u-shaped bays with high berms on three sides or more. Targets can be placed closer to the berms, and shooters can move and engage targets on three sides, not just slavishly dead ahead.

If the AGC would build one simple pistol bay, 50 feet by 50 feet, they could hold bowling pin matches every Saturday and not have to shut down the entire pistol range to do it.

 

[Moon]

That "useless berm at 25 yards" is the primary target line. Although the range has a berm at 50 yards, and can accommodate targets at that range, it is really designed for bullseye competition at 25 yards. Did you not notice all those steel target frames at 25 yards? You can wire or zip tie a 32" square of cardboard to one and post a single target. Or remove the frame, place a single wooden stick in the socket, attach a piece of cardboard, and post a dozen targets if you like.

That "useless berm at 25 yards" is intended to protect the machinery from bullet impacts. Those steel frames are mechanically geared to conceal and expose the targets used in competition. "Your time begins when your target appears."


If the berm were not there, you still would have to post your targets high at seven yards in order to ensure that they do not hit the ground before that 50 yard berm. If they hit the ground in front of the berm, they can ricochet like a stone skipping off water, and skip right over that high ridge beyond.

Targets should be close to the berm to prevent those ricochets. If your target is at ten yards, and the berm is forty yards beyond that, then you have to post your targets very high to avoid ricochets.

The AGC pistol range is very well designed and narrowly specialized for formal bullseye competition at 25 yards. It is badly designed for other types of handgun shooting. Look at the action shooting videos I posted. That shooting is mainly done in pistol bays, deep u-shaped bays with high berms on three sides or more. Targets can be placed closer to the berms, and shooters can move and engage targets on three sides, not just slavishly dead ahead.

If the AGC would build one simple pistol bay, 50 feet by 50 feet, they could hold bowling pin matches every Saturday and not have to shut down the entire pistol range to do it.

If you hit the useless berm at 25 yards, you are asked to raise your target, or do whatever else you need to to avoid hitting it. You are not allowed to hit the 25 yard berm, so it is useless.

If there is any machinery behind the berm, I have never seen it used.

 

[plinkerton]

If you hit the useless berm at 25 yards, you are asked to raise your target, or do whatever else you need to to avoid hitting it. You are not allowed to hit the 25 yard berm, so it is useless.

If there is any machinery behind the berm, I have never seen it used.

Every Tuesday 6:00 PM, come on out 3 bucks for the evening. If the weather is nice there is weenie roast afterwards.

 

[Erno86]

If you hit the useless berm at 25 yards, you are asked to raise your target, or do whatever else you need to to avoid hitting it. You are not allowed to hit the 25 yard berm, so it is useless.

If there is any machinery behind the berm, I have never seen it used.

If everybody shot at the 25 yard berm at the AGC pistol range...it would turn into a berm of lead/copper filled dirt instead of mowed grass. The designated impact area is at 51-52 yards; no more no less.

If you look just to the left of the 25 yard berm...there is a wooden box that houses the electrical machine that pivots the 25 yard targets 90 degrees and perpendicular to the shooter under electrical command from the match director in the range house behind the firing line.

To the right...is the concrete block wall that some yahoo's like to take potshot's at --- I guess --- in order to see how well there bullet's penetrate concrete block wall. If I ever catch a person trying to shoot that wall or trying to shoot at live deer on purpose...I'll guarantee that that you are going to lose your range badge.

Behind that block wall is a station for a human to manipulate the pivoting range targets manually; by a giant metal lever.

 

[Moon]

If everybody shot at the 25 yard berm at the AGC pistol range...it would turn into a berm of lead/copper filled dirt instead of mowed grass. The designated impact area is at 51-52 yards; no more no less.

If you look just to the left of the 25 yard berm...there is a wooden box that houses the electrical machine that pivots the 25 yard targets 90 degrees and perpendicular to the shooter under electrical command from the match director in the range house behind the firing line.

To the right...is the concrete block wall that some yahoo's like to take potshot's at --- I guess --- in order to see how well there bullet's penetrate concrete block wall. If I ever catch a person trying to shoot that wall or trying to shoot at live deer on purpose...I'll guarantee that that you are going to lose your range badge.

Behind that block wall is a station for a human to manipulate the pivoting range targets manually; by a giant metal lever.

The way I see it, and I don't think I'm alone, is that there is not much use for a 50 yd pistol range. Instead of a berm in the middle of a 50 yd range that gets struck by just about every novice shooter, or induces yahoos to shoot at it for the fun of it, the members might be better served by a 25 yd pistol range. It does appear to be a pretty big waste of space for a contraption that is rarely used. Just one man's opinion.

 

[rseymorejr]

If everybody shot at the 25 yard berm at the AGC pistol range...it would turn into a berm of lead/copper filled dirt instead of mowed grass. The designated impact area is at 51-52 yards; no more no less.

If you look just to the left of the 25 yard berm...there is a wooden box that houses the electrical machine that pivots the 25 yard targets 90 degrees and perpendicular to the shooter under electrical command from the match director in the range house behind the firing line.

To the right...is the concrete block wall that some yahoo's like to take potshot's at --- I guess --- in order to see how well there bullet's penetrate concrete block wall. If I ever catch a person trying to shoot that wall or trying to shoot at live deer on purpose...I'll guarantee that that you are going to lose your range badge.

Behind that block wall is a station for a human to manipulate the pivoting range targets manually; by a giant metal lever.

Several months ago some moron was setting rocks on the 25 yard berm and shooting them

 

[SWO Daddy]

The way I see it, and I don't think I'm alone, is that there is not much use for a 50 yd pistol range. Instead of a berm in the middle of a 50 yd range that gets struck by just about every novice shooter, or induces yahoos to shoot at it for the fun of it, the members might be better served by a 25 yd pistol range. It does appear to be a pretty big waste of space for a contraption that is rarely used. Just one man's opinion.

Agree. I understand how the range is designed, and it's fine for that limited purpose - but the space isn't used anywhere near it's potential.

 

[SKIP]

Several months ago some moron was setting rocks on the 25 yard berm and shooting them

I remember the RSO showing me.

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

Yeah, I need to get some frames to set up targets at 19 yds at AGC. Anyone got a good way to stick it in the ground or have a stand on your target?

See attached. You can also talk with Alex (the RSO) for details on how to build. One caveat: make sure all the parts are from the same manufacturer as mixing parts can change the dimensions a bit.

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

There are plans for developing another pistol range at the AGC that will allow for more active forms of pistol shooting. It is one of the capital improvements and like all things, takes both time and money.

As for never seeing the machinery behind the berms, it all depends on who does your range orientation. I suspect you did not see the pits at the 200 yd range or get to see how the wobble trap or other trap houses operate either.