Special Session: SB21 Introduced

[esqappellate]

And don't make the mistake of being wrong: one year in prison, which conveniently denies you from carrying and possessing ever again.

Should call it the "Converting Lawful Carriers to Criminals Act".

Actually, possession of any firearm or ammo (not just a handgun) is forever banned if you are convicted of either a state or federal crime that is "punishable" by a sentence *exceeding* one year (one year and a day will do). Note that is not "punished" but "punishable" --meaning the legal theoretical maximum, even if you got probation and no jail time.

Doesn't matter if it was state or federal court. If it is "punishable" by a term of more than a year, possession is banned. For life. that's a lot of crimes, including mere second degree misdemeanor assault (theoretically punishable by up to 3 years). And note that the crime of domestic violence means *any* conviction regardless of how long it is punishable. Here is the statute:

18 U.S.C. 922g:

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person--

(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

*****

(9) has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

Now the definition section in 18 USC 921 makes clear that STATE misdemeanors are classified differently if punishable by 2 years or less:

Here is the definition in 18 usc 921:

(20) The term “crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year” does not include--

(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices, or

(B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less.

BTW, that is limited to STATE misdemeanors. Federal misdemeanors punishable by more than a year comes under the ban in 922g

 

[Patrick]

OK, as an update...

This bill is mostly dead right now. We need to watch it, and if it moves from the Rules Committee to Judiciary, we will need to (re)act.

I will warn that this bill has concepts we are going to have to face again. This isn't over, and next time won't be so easy.

 

[Kimerazor]

Our current "representatives" are gerrymandering Maryland to eliminate any & ALL conservatives (Republicans).

No one should think for one minute that these "public servants" won't draft legislation to keep limiting our rights.


NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
GRRN Supporter

 

[randyho]

I will warn that this bill has concepts we are going to have to face again. This isn't over, and next time won't be so easy.

Looking forward to your deconstruction, Patrick.

 

[ffemtreed]

PA model for the win.

That one has my vote, but I will compromise for VA.

PS --Thanks to Patrick and the rest of his minions for doing what is right!!

 

[gmhowell]

One interesting (to me) point is that it still makes no mention of long guns or banning the open carry thereof.

Patrick: Any chance of you being a MD 2A only mod? It might make it easier to post updates, actions items, etc. without getting caught in some of the jumbo threads. Perhaps a mirror of some of the MSI emails? Just an idea.

 

[gmhowell]

That one has my vote, but I will compromise for VA.

Speaking as a MoCo resident, I second the objection to county by county permitting.

 

[jonnyl]

I don't understand how anyone who is intelligent enough to put three words together into a sentence (eg: "Me hate guns") can argue for gun-free zones.

I get the training argument (not that I agree, but I see it) and in a generous mood I could read that bill as having a lot of flexibility to include a broad list of courses, and even offer some at no cost.

But do these people, no matter how zealous, really believe that a crazed killer will not perpetrate a mass shooting because they're not allowed to take their guns to their target location?

I understand that because they're anti's they're probably just trying to make the list as long as possible, I just don't get how they can argue for it logically.

 

[ffemtreed]

Speaking as a MoCo resident, I second the objection to county by county permitting.

PA sheriff's can't deny someone just because they don't like guns. They need a very good reason. The sheriff's offices don't have much of a choice other than to issue a permit.

When I lived in PA, it was go to the sheriffs office, get a 10 minute PICS background check done and walkout with a permit 15 minutes later. Cost was like 20 bucks or something like that.

 

[rambling_one]

Utah law prohibits intoxication while carrying. Carry in a bar is legal.

 

[mvee]

So if there is an ATM in a bar, would the armed guard be able to refill it?

 

[teratos]

I don't understand how anyone who is intelligent enough to put three words together into a sentence (eg: "Me hate guns") can argue for gun-free zones.

These are people completely unfamiliar with guns. They think if you get too close to them, they go off and kill people.

 

[Blacksmith101]

Patrick,

Could/should we mount an edcational campaign for the legislators who are not rabid anit's to blunt some of these ideas by suggesting acceptiable alternative language prior to the January session? Things like varrious type firearms safety instruction from recognized organizations such as NRA, hunter safety training, retired/former LOE or military. Insted of creating universal no gun zones allow business and organizations to post specific language and design signs such as Texas 30-06 rules. Don't ban carry in bars and resturants ban the act of drinking while carring. In other words show the legislators the alternate language and pathways that are available before they get hit with a Bill.

Blacksmith101

 

[esqappellate]

These are people completely unfamiliar with guns. They think if you get too close to them, they go off and kill people.

That's it absolutely. Especially, those guns seek out and kill children -- right from the holster! Try to convince them sometime that ammo will not go off and kill someone simply by dropping it. These folks think ammo is like Nitroglycerin -- one good shake and BOOM.

 

[Robert]

Thank you for all your hard work everybody.. (Just saw this... well after the fireworks..)

From what I see this proposed legislation is a trap... It's got the gold ring, but it looks like it's affixed inside of a huge Iron tooth trap.

 

[aray]

A moment of reflection

This is not to hijack the thread, but to give hope to everyone participating.

Not too long ago, “battered gun owners’ syndrome” was the norm. People thought they would die before Maryland ever went Shall Issue. Admit it – most of you thought that too. Our practical short-term goal was little more than to prevent further erosion of gun rights in the General Assembly. No national gun rights group would give us the time of day.

In the recent past: MSI membership is way up and still increasing. Our MSI web pages are modern, up to date, and provide timely information and guidance. We have seen Woollard filed by the SAF, won at the Federal District Court level, and fast tracked in the Fourth District Court of Appeals. Something like nine amicus curiae briefs were filed on our behalf, two from the NRA alone, and also including 14 Sovereign States saying Maryland got it wrong! (The Commonwealth Of Virginia, the states of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, West Virginia, and the Commonwealth of Kentucky.) We beat back Frosch in the last General Assembly regular session and we won.

And, now, even though we have a gun bill with a lot of provisions in it we find unacceptable in their current form: we have a strategy, tactical plan, and likelihood of success.

Even better, the bill repeals Good and Substantial outright! Who would have thought that the Maryland General Assembly would ever under any circumstances introduce a bill removing that phrase?

Yes, it has some undefined training requirements and “danger conduct” language – but look what a position of weakness the opposition starts from! Training is possible, training is free in the bill, most will have no “conduct” the MSP will be able to use against most people, and G&S is really dead. With a little tweaking on those two phrases and on time/place/manner, this bill could look like something already on the books in one of the 41 Shall Issue states!

Of course this bill must die or be dramatically changed in its current form. Hard work lies ahead. As Patrick warned us, January will be harder than now. We need everyone to be vigilant and diligent when called upon - and have patience and optimism when not. But there is no reason for anything but optimism. The former and current MSI Board Members, and all of you, have made this all happen.

Good job to all. Now let’s keep our focus and energy up for the few more months ahead until the real goal is here.

 

[teratos]

Patrick,

Could/should we mount an edcational campaign for the legislators who are not rabid anit's to blunt some of these ideas by suggesting acceptiable alternative language prior to the January session? Things like varrious type firearms safety instruction from recognized organizations such as NRA, hunter safety training, retired/former LOE or military. Insted of creating universal no gun zones allow business and organizations to post specific language and design signs such as Texas 30-06 rules. Don't ban carry in bars and resturants ban the act of drinking while carring. In other words show the legislators the alternate language and pathways that are available before they get hit with a Bill.

Blacksmith101

This is exactly what needs to be done. Maryland has been so insulated, they have no idea there is a larger world out there that has been there and done that. They think they have to re-invent the wheel. We need to convince them that they do not.

 

[6pack]

Lot's a emotions reading through this for the past hour plus, but in general, I feel positive going forward. Thanks MSI for the continued work. I'll be watching for action items.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

OK, as an update...

This bill is mostly dead right now. We need to watch it, and if it moves from the Rules Committee to Judiciary, we will need to (re)act.

I will warn that this bill has concepts we are going to have to face again. This isn't over, and next time won't be so easy.

That said, we will use every tactic possible to stop it, inclusive of referendum.

 

[annihilation-time]

Utah law prohibits intoxication while carrying. Carry in a bar is legal.

That's the way it should be. I don't drink, but I'll go out with family and friends to be social.