Yet another "is this AR-15 URG/barrel legal in MD" thread... (Olympic Arms)

[MattFinals718]

As I've mentioned in previous topics: I'm getting ready to move to MD next month. One of my retro AR-15 uppers is an old Olympic Arms XM177-style upper, which used to be sold by OlyArms as the "K3B CAR." It comes with an 11.5" barrel with permanently attached 5.5" flash suppressor. Pics of the upper on my Colt 6920 lower (fitted with a Brownell's replica N1 CAR stock) are attached. The barrel profile under the handguards is certainly thicker than Gov - it doesn't seem to taper at all from the barrel nut to the gas block/FSP area.

Question is - does this upper meet the standard for MD "HBAR exempt" compliance so that I can run it on any of my AR lowers? My repeated scourings of this forum have indicated that being advertised by the OEM as "heavy" is sufficient to be compliant. Olympic Arms is now out of business and their web site is no longer active, but thanks to the Wayback Machine, I found Olympic Arms' 2005 catalog on an archived version of their web site (also attached), and I see that on Page 13, they describe the K3B CAR model as featuring a "heavy barrel." (This same description can also be found on archived sites for some retailers that used to sell this gun.)

Interested in thoughts: Am I good to go, or should I sell this URG?

 

[Russ D]

I wouldn’t take any chances in MD with interpretation. This is not a gun friendly state and I wouldn’t feel safe unless it was stamped H-bar.

 

[outrider58]

Copy the add from the catalog. It says heavy barrel. That's all you need.

 

[outrider58]

I wouldn’t take any chances in MD with interpretation. This is not a gun friendly state and I wouldn’t feel safe unless it was stamped H-bar.

It has to be advertised as heavy barrel OR stamped as heavy barrel. He's GTG.

It is advertised as "heavy barrel" in the catalog.

 

[Squaregrouper]

If it is stamped or marketed by the manufacturer as a heavy barrel, it is GTG in Maryland. Barrel diameter, specs, etc. mean nothing in this backwards state.
There is at least one manufacturer out there who added a MD specific SKU on their website to make a barrel MD compliant.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Copy the add from the catalog. It says heavy barrel. That's all you need.

This is the way.

 

[MattFinals718]

The one nuance I'll point out: Olympic Arms generally did not describe their ARs' barrel contours on their web site in later years. Usually, they referenced only the material used in construction, method of manufacture, and twist rate. The exception was for their pencil-barrel carbines, which they consistently described as "Featherweight" barrels - the guns themselves were sold as the "K3B FAR". Otherwise, none of their rifle or URG listings have a line describing barrel contour/profile on iterations of the web site dating after about 2010.

But at least in 2005, they were advertising the XM177-style upper that I own as "heavy barrel". This is what it says in the 2005 catalog:

"A rugged and reliable carbine with the assault weapon look. With a heavy barrel, collapsible stock, and flash suppressor, this rifle still won’t break the bank. Available with A3 style upper receiver that adds the versatility of a picatinny flat top and detachable carry handle."

 

[outrider58]

Don't over think it.

 

[Russ D]

Does it have to be advertised that way in the year of production?

 

[outrider58]

Does it have to be advertised that way in the year of production?

I'll leave that up to the OP. He can call MSP for guidance. Me, I'd let it got at that.

 

[MattFinals718]

Does it have to be advertised that way in the year of production?

I'll leave that up to the OP. He can call MSP for guidance. Me, I'd let it got at that.

Well, if that's what MSP expects, then not really sure what to do, because I only own the URG (which is a non-serialized part). I don't know when the rifle that it came from was originally made, though I suspect that my upper came from a pre-1994 carbine, given its condition.

But as cautious as I am, I have a hard time imagining that MSP would care about year of production, unless the barrel specs changed significantly over time. My research on Olympic Arms guns indicates that this is not the case - all of their standard button-rifled barrels measured 0.980" under the handguard, in pre-ban (before 1994), ban era (1994-2004), and after ban era (2004-2019) configurations. (Side note: this is the same diameter as Colt HBAR barrels, though OlyArms never used the "HBAR" nomenclature or marked their barrels as such.) So if it was the same barrel in 2005 as 1993, then I would guess production year doesn't matter - only that the OEM ever called it a "heavy" barrel.

I'd say that I'm comfortable going by what Olympic Arms put in their catalog that I found.

 

[Crazytrain]

The good news is it is unlikely to ever be an issue. Why would they check? Despite there being an "assault weapon ban" there are a lot of ARs around in Maryland. You'd have to be absurdly unlucky to be harassed for your barrel I'd think.

On the other hand, don't blame me if they throw the book at you. Your mileage may vary. I take no responsibility.

 

[rbird7282]

Well, if that's what MSP expects, then not really sure what to do, because I only own the URG (which is a non-serialized part). I don't know when the rifle that it came from was originally made, though I suspect that my upper came from a pre-1994 carbine, given its condition.

But as cautious as I am, I have a hard time imagining that MSP would care about year of production, unless the barrel specs changed significantly over time. My research on Olympic Arms guns indicates that this is not the case - all of their standard button-rifled barrels measured 0.980" under the handguard, in pre-ban (before 1994), ban era (1994-2004), and after ban era (2004-2019) configurations. (Side note: this is the same diameter as Colt HBAR barrels, though OlyArms never used the "HBAR" nomenclature or marked their barrels as such.) So if it was the same barrel in 2005 as 1993, then I would guess production year doesn't matter - only that the OEM ever called it a "heavy" barrel.

I'd say that I'm comfortable going by what Olympic Arms put in their catalog that I found.

Forget barrel diameter, it’s irrelevant. Olympic Arms advertised it as a heavy barrel. Done. Nothing else needed.


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[MattFinals718]

Forget barrel diameter, it’s irrelevant. Olympic Arms advertised it as a heavy barrel. Done. Nothing else needed.


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Well, yes, I am aware that there have been countless threads already about the lack of a set of specs which define an "HBAR" barrel. (Though I do think it's interesting to point out that the OlyArms barrel specs match Colt HBAR diameter under the handguard.)

I'm mostly just trying to think about circumstances in which date of manufacture would matter, since that was Russ' question. My point is: If the specs on the barrel don't vary across time (i.e., an OlyArms K3B CAR made in 1993 is identical in specs to one made in 2005), then the date of the advertisement/catalog should be irrelevant.

 

[Russ D]

If it’s the exact same model as advertised and nothing changed when it was built then you should be fine. The law is ridiculously ambiguous. Manufacturers change things year to year and sometimes don’t update descriptions.

 

[Muleskinner]

If it is stamped or marketed by the manufacturer as a heavy barrel, it is GTG in Maryland. Barrel diameter, specs, etc. mean nothing in this backwards state.
There is at least one manufacturer out there who added a MD specific SKU on their website to make a barrel MD compliant.

I didn't realize that was part of the law. I didn't think MD actually had any description for what is and isn't an HBAR in the wording..

 

[Biggfoot44]

Copy the add from the catalog. It says heavy barrel. That's all you need.

This !

If you want to be belt and suspenders extra paranoid , print out another copy , and carry in the pocket of the gun case .

 

[MattFinals718]

If it’s the exact same model as advertised and nothing changed when it was built then you should be fine. The law is ridiculously ambiguous. Manufacturers change things year to year and sometimes don’t update descriptions.

I mean, I can't say that the K3B CAR model has not changed at all since OlyArms originally introduced that configuration (back in the late-1980s)...just that the barrel profile hasn't. (Also: The model name "K3B CAR" was used both prior to the 1994 Federal AWB, and also again after it expired in 2004, to describe the OlyArms XM177 look-alike model that I own.)

In general, all of Olympic Arms' rifles and carbines had a standard barrel profile that was equivalent in specs to Colt HBAR (but not marked or advertised as such, probably because they didn't want Colt to sue them). I can, however, find evidence that they used to describe those barrels on their web site and catalogs as "heavy" (see attached).

This !

If you want to be belt and suspenders extra paranoid , print out another copy , and carry in the pocket of the gun case .

Nah, I actually downloaded the 2005 catalog that I posted to my phone earlier. In the (highly unlikely) event that somebody at a shooting range in MD ever asks me for proof that my OlyArms rifle is a heavy barrel AR, I'd just pull up the file and show them what it says.

For real, though...are there any anecdotes anywhere on this forum where people have been asked (by MSP officers, range owners, etc.) to prove that their post-2013 AR is heavy barrel?

 

[rbird7282]

I mean, I can't say that the K3B CAR model has not changed at all since OlyArms originally introduced that configuration (back in the late-1980s)...just that the barrel profile hasn't. (Also: The model name "K3B CAR" was used both prior to the 1994 Federal AWB, and also again after it expired in 2004, to describe the OlyArms XM177 look-alike model that I own.)

In general, all of Olympic Arms' rifles and carbines had a standard barrel profile that was equivalent in specs to Colt HBAR (but not marked or advertised as such, probably because they didn't want Colt to sue them). I can, however, find evidence that they used to describe those barrels on their web site and catalogs as "heavy" (see attached).



Nah, I actually downloaded the 2005 catalog that I posted to my phone earlier. In the (highly unlikely) event that somebody at a shooting range in MD ever asks me for proof that my OlyArms rifle is a heavy barrel AR, I'd just pull up the file and show them what it says.

For real, though...are there any anecdotes anywhere on this forum where people have been asked (by MSP officers, range owners, etc.) to prove that their post-2013 AR is heavy barrel?

I’ve never heard of a single person who has ever had their AR checked for a heavy barrel at the range


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[MattFinals718]

Hmmm...interesting:

XM177 clone build help

Trying to build/buy a md legal xm177 clone. I havent bought any parts yet still in the planning phase. Was looking at the retro rifle from brownells but unfortunately it is not hbar and I do not own any pre '13 lowers. Does anyone have a source for a pinned xm177 style a1 upper? Everything...

www.mdshooters.com

When the OP asked about MD-complaint XM177-style guns, they discussed the OlyArms K3B CAR rifle, but nobody seemed to think that it was MD-compliant if purchased after 2013. Guess that they didn't do the research that I did*.



* Of course, that's because in my case, I was determined to ensure that I hadn't flushed $800 that I had already spent down the toilet, not to take suggestions for a new AR build.