What is the ground truth now?

[jmland]

For those who aren't affected by it/don't know, Maryland passed a law banning AR's and others in this class of rifles as of 1 Oct 2013.

I've seen a lot of discussion on here and other forums, just wanted to get the ground truth on what the effect of the law is in regards to AR 15's.
I've been to a couple of gun shops and have seen what they called "Maryland safe" AR's (one was an AR 10, one was "called " an AR 15, but it was bastardized with some stainless steel barrel).
Bottom line, is that I'm looking to see what hoops I have to jump thru in order to do (legally) what I want (get another AR lower, and put a long/longer barrel/top on it)- I already have an M4, looking for something that I can actually hit center target consistantly at 100 mtrs+ (on an 8 inch target).

thanks in advance.

FNG in Maryland

 

[ken792]

You can't hit an 8" target at 100 meters with a carbine? I'd worry more about marksmanship (and possibly ammo choices) than getting a rifle length AR. With my 16" barreled AR and cheap steel cased Tulammo I can keep all ten shots within a 3-4" group at 100 yards. When I was shooting Winchester PDX 60 grain, I could keep all of my shots within about a 2" group at 100 yards.

Heavy barrel AR-15's are still interpreted by the Maryland State Police as not banned and legal. If you really want a 20" rifle, it would have to be an HBAR.

However, if your AR was "evil" prior to 10/1, you can legally switch out the upper to anything you want (as long as the barrel is over 16").

 

[mopar92]

Contact Lou45 at Shooters Discount he'll hook you up. Gimme a minute and ill post a link.

 

[mopar92]

Here ya go.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=137382

 

[jmland]

Yeah well, still playing with my sights. I am hitting the target, just not yet happy with it. (i.e. only 40% within 2 inches of center). Need more practice.
(well 40% may be a stretch...call in 30% within 2 inches of center at 50 mtrs)

 

[mopar92]

Location?
First rifle?

 

[jmland]

I'm in Cecil county,

First "privately owned" rifle.

 

[samthefireman23]

For those who aren't affected by it/don't know, Maryland passed a law banning AR's and others in this class of rifles as of 1 Oct 2013.

I've seen a lot of discussion on here and other forums, just wanted to get the ground truth on what the effect of the law is in regards to AR 15's.
I've been to a couple of gun shops and have seen what they called "Maryland safe" AR's (one was an AR 10, one was "called " an AR 15, but it was bastardized with some stainless steel barrel).
Bottom line, is that I'm looking to see what hoops I have to jump thru in order to do (legally) what I want (get another AR lower, and put a long/longer barrel/top on it)- I already have an M4, looking for something that I can actually hit center target consistantly at 100 mtrs+ (on an 8 inch target).

thanks in advance.

FNG in Maryland

I would concentrate on my marksmanship, pm me if you would like private instruction

 

[mopar92]

Ahh a bit far for me to travel to train you a bit. Explain what you do at the range. Maybe we can help.

 

[lee2]

For those who aren't affected by it/don't know, Maryland passed a law banning AR's and others in this class of rifles as of 1 Oct 2013.

I've seen a lot of discussion on here and other forums, just wanted to get the ground truth on what the effect of the law is in regards to AR 15's.
I've been to a couple of gun shops and have seen what they called "Maryland safe" AR's (one was an AR 10, one was "called " an AR 15, but it was bastardized with some stainless steel barrel).
Bottom line, is that I'm looking to see what hoops I have to jump thru in order to do (legally) what I want (get another AR lower, and put a long/longer barrel/top on it)- I already have an M4, looking for something that I can actually hit center target consistantly at 100 mtrs+ (on an 8 inch target).

thanks in advance.

FNG in Maryland

not going to happen in maryland unless you build it, or buy an HBAR and use the lower.

 

[jmland]

well,

1. zero the weapon/sights at 25 mtrs using military zero target, 3 shot groups, adjust, repeat until center mass.
2. move the target stand to 50 (or sometimes 100) mtrs, repeat using same target type
3. then new targets (bullseye type) at that same distance, this is what I'm counting

FYI, using red-dot (zero mag) sights

 

[jmland]

not going to happen in maryland unless you build it, or buy an HBAR and use the lower.

Building would be an option as I have time on my hands now, but I know enough to know that I don't know enough, and would probably screw the pooch on it.

May I infer from your comment that any HBAR in Maryland has the cheesy stainless steel (or whatever) barrel?

 

[mopar92]

HBAR refers to barrel thickness not material.
However, most HBARs are more "target" types versus "tactical" types.

Slung or unslung when firing?
Bench or self supported position?
Where are your hands and what are they doing?
What type of sight? A2, fixed, folding?
Scoped?
Off of sandbags?
Free floating or non free floating handguard?
What size mag?
What type ammo?
Bipod or no? Where is it mounted?

 

[jmland]

HBAR refers to barrel thickness not material.
However, most HBARs are more "target" types versus "tactical" types.



Slung or unslung when firing?-unslung, don't use sling
Bench or self supported position? bench, but standing position behind bench
Where are your hands and what are they doing? left supporting handguard about midway, right on the pistol grip/trigger
What type of sight? A2, fixed, folding?
Scoped? red dot scope
Off of sandbags? no sandbags
Free floating or non free floating handguard? non-free floating
What size mag? 20
What type ammo? Tula
Bipod or no? Where is it mounted?yes, almost all the way forward

 

[lee2]

Building would be an option as I have time on my hands now, but I know enough to know that I don't know enough, and would probably screw the pooch on it.

May I infer from your comment that any HBAR in Maryland has the cheesy stainless steel (or whatever) barrel?

HBAR= Heavy Barrel AR-15

 

[mopar92]

HBAR refers to barrel thickness not material.
However, most HBARs are more "target" types versus "tactical" types.



Slung or unslung when firing?-unslung, don't use sling
Bench or self supported position? bench, but standing position behind bench
Where are your hands and what are they doing? left supporting handguard about midway, right on the pistol grip/trigger
What type of sight? A2, fixed, folding?
Scoped? red dot scope
Off of sandbags? no sandbags
Free floating or non free floating handguard? non-free floating
What size mag? 20
What type ammo? Tula
Bipod or no? Where is it mounted?yes, almost all the way forward

Okay. With a non free floating handguard, bipod, red dot scope, and Tula steel cased ammo. 3-4" is about what you or anyone else can expect.

Not to mention you're basically shooting offhand or kneeling behind a bench. Neither is really conducive to shooting accurately.

The bipod is exerting pressure on the forend which in turn exerts pressure on the barrel. The fact that you're not using a sling means you're not operating as a singular "system". The rifles doing one thing you're doing another. The red dot limits your accuracy as it may cover up too much of the target.

Solution?
Install a free float handguard.
Learn how to use a sling.
Ditch the bipod it adds weight and isn't really needed at your skill level.
(Not talking down but it's really only useful at 300+ yards)
Ditch the red dot and use irons.
Dry fire 20 times for every single shot at the range.
Dry fire at the smallest or farthest target possible so you can see what your doing wrong.
Use better ammo. Brass cased. M193 or M855 is the best for reliabilty not accuracy.

 

[fabsroman]

Building would be an option as I have time on my hands now, but I know enough to know that I don't know enough, and would probably screw the pooch on it.

May I infer from your comment that any HBAR in Maryland has the cheesy stainless steel (or whatever) barrel?

You can get an HBAR with a black nitride barrel or some other form of black barrel. Some companies even make a black barrel with flutes in it. It does not have to be stainless steel in coloration.

 

[fabsroman]

Okay. With a non free floating handguard, bipod, red dot scope, and Tula steel cased ammo. 3-4" is about what you or anyone else can expect.

Not to mention you're basically shooting offhand or kneeling behind a bench. Neither is really conducive to shooting accurately.

The bipod is exerting pressure on the forend which in turn exerts pressure on the barrel. The fact that you're not using a sling means you're not operating as a singular "system". The rifles doing one thing you're doing another. The red dot limits your accuracy as it may cover up too much of the target.

Solution?
Install a free float handguard.
Learn how to use a sling.
Ditch the bipod it adds weight and isn't really needed at your skill level.
(Not talking down but it's really only useful at 300+ yards)
Ditch the red dot and use irons.
Dry fire 20 times for every single shot at the range.
Dry fire at the smallest or farthest target possible so you can see what your doing wrong.
Use better ammo. Brass cased. M193 or M855 is the best for reliabilty not accuracy.

Yep, the accuracy issue really seems to be shooter related and not rifle related. Hard to believe that a decent AR, even carbine length, cannot pull off 2 MOA. I have seen a couple of people on here that have blamed the rifle for their accuracy issues, when it is a shooter problem and not a rifle problem. Tough to give advice though when you cannot watch them shoot.

 

[ken792]

What kind of sights are on your rifle? I've heard a lot of people not get good result with the polymer Magpul backup folding sights that come on a lot of guns these days. I run a Knight Armament Micro as my folding rear sight and an Aimpoint PRO. I used to have a Magpul rear sight, but I figured out that the little aperture and the big one do not have the exact same windage when switching between them.

My HBAR is actually a 16" barrel (made by FN) carbine with a mid length gas system. I got the upper from Palmetto State Armory. It certainly is more "tactical" than heavy match rifle.

 

[Pinecone]

MANY high quality match barrels are stainless steel.

Some are natural stainless looking, and some are finished to any number of final finishes.

SS is NOT a bad material for a barrel.