VICTORY IN PALMER!!!!

[Decoy]

This was overturned in Heller.

Agreed, maybe that's why he used that particular phrasing. So they couldn't pull any BS.

 

[DC-W]

I would go there today, but all of my mags for both of the pistols I own are 10+, lol.

 

[lawrencewendall]

Lanier just announced to not arrest anyone who can legally carry in DC or any other state.

They will still be banned from all Federal Buildings

Not so

18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

It's just that no one will define "other lawful purposes"

 

[CypherPunk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYCvt01Ze1M&sns=em

 

[danb]

FFLs in Maryland will pin mags though, for $10-15.

 

[big pimpin]

Not so

18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

It's just that no one will define "other lawful purposes"

Technically but it's not gonna happen

 

[big pimpin]

Also, I presume Lanier's order applies only to the MPDC. Do you trust that the US Park Police, US Capitol Police, Federal Protective Service, Uniformed Secret Service, WMATA Transit Police, etc., etc. are going to know not to enforce the law?

Exactly. Expect the old law to be enforced on Federal Property until it's sorted by the lawyers.

Does one want to be the test case?

 

[swinokur]

FFLs in Maryland will pin mags though, for $10-15.

We don't know if DC law allows this. Best to await some clarification if it happens at all.

 

[ryan_j]

FWIW: I just talked to a close friend who is an MPD sergeant. His orders are 'not to arrest anyone carrying'. He says MPD is erring on the side of caution to avoid contempt charges. The entire department is in shock! Waiting on him to forward me a copy of Lanier's orders.

GOOD!

 

[CypherPunk]

Being discussed now on WMAL's Chris Plante show.

 

[dblas]

I still worry that the ammo portion of DC laws may be problematic (not to mention the 10-round limit--HT to pbh).

Other than "ready to use" (implying in the firearm?), I've yet to see anything that would even permit anyone to carry a spare mag.

Patrick covered the ammunition issue in his post #141 :

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=3309512&postcount=141

"DC equates any part of a firearm or ammunition to be the same as a firearm itself. So yes, ammo is covered. The judge also made clear that this ruling was to cover "ready to use" firearms for self defense. In other words, loaded."

 

[Mr H]

Reading the decision now...

starting the middle of p11, through p14 holds some real gems


But something is bothering me...

In BACKGROUND:

In their second claim for relief, Plaintiffs allege that "Defendants' laws, customs, practices and policies generally refusing the registration of firearms by individuals who live outside the District of Columbia violate the rights to travel and equal protection secured by the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, facially and as applied against the individual plaintiffs in this action, damaging plaintiffs in violation of 42 U.S.C. § 1983

Plaintiffs seek relief in the form of an Order permanently enjoining Defendants, "their officers, agents, servants, employees, and all persons in active concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of the injunction, from enforcing D.C. Code § 7-2502.02(a)(4) to ban registration of handguns to be carried for self-defense by law-abiding citizens

In CONCLUSION:

ORDERS that Defendants, their officers, agents, servants, employees and all persons in active concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this Memorandum-Decision and Order, are permanently enjoined from enforcing D.C. Code § 7-2502.02(a)(4) to ban registration of handguns to be carried in public for self-defense by law-abiding citizens

Is this saying that DC must allow you to carry, but they cannot ban you from registering the handgun in the city? And, if so, would they allow you to carry ONLY if you register?

Very confusing, and need a little help on this one...

 

[swinokur]

Loaded but with a legal limit? It isn't qualified. Wonder if the Judge did this intentionally? Or did he not consider it?

 

[swinokur]

Reading the decision now...

starting the middle of p11, through p14 holds some real gems


But something is bothering me...

In BACKGROUND:


In CONCLUSION:


Is this saying that DC must allow you to carry, but they cannot ban you from registering the handgun in the city? And, if so, would they allow you to carry ONLY if you register?

Very confusing, and need a little help on this one...

I heard someone say DC residents must still register handguns but out of state does not. I think it was the DC AG but not sure of it's origins

 

[Hopalong]

This is fabulous news. This case has "The New Heller" written all over it, and the language used in the ruling indicates that Judge Sculin is aware of its significance.

As much as I am excited by the news of the ruling in Palmer, it has reaffirmed my long-standing belief that Maryland will be the last state to allow average citizens to carry. Our laws are just bad enough to be restrictive, yet not so restrictive as to be easy to overturn in court. We're on our way though, we're on our way....

 

[swinokur]

Our problem is MD doesn't ban handguns. It would have been better if they had.

 

[Mr H]

Patrick covered the ammunition issue in his post #141 :

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=3309512&postcount=141

"DC equates any part of a firearm or ammunition to be the same as a firearm itself. So yes, ammo is covered. The judge also made clear that this ruling was to cover "ready to use" firearms for self defense. In other words, loaded."

Missed that somehow... thanks.

 

[safecracker]

Also, I presume Lanier's order applies only to the MPDC. Do you trust that the US Park Police, US Capitol Police, Federal Protective Service, Uniformed Secret Service, WMATA Transit Police, etc., etc. are going to know not to enforce the law?

From my MPD source:

"Law applies equally to all Law Enforcement agencies. They have to come out with their own internal guidelines."

So, while MPD's directives do not apply to other LE agencies, they are still bound to comply with the court's ruling.

 

[DC-W]

I listened to WNEW on the way to work this morning.

They had some dweeby sounding douchebag say, "The 2nd Amendment is soooo outdated."
Another woman said, "I don't feel safe knowing there's guns all over the place now"

They didn't post any opinions supporting the ruling.

 

[swinokur]

"There's guns all over the place."

The criminals have always had them.

Until Saturday.