The gun dealers have any authority

[Muleskinner]

Any private business can refuse to sell to anyone, for any reason, at any time.

No that's not true. There are certain businesses regulated by the government that are required by law to provide services. Taxi cabs in most places are a prime example. A cab driver must pick up any fare requesting a ride if they are not currently engaged in other taxi business.

 

[Muleskinner]

Just wait till the first Trans justice warrior gets denied and the poor FFL gets squashed by the Biden Justice Department

Yeah that's what I was getting at. There have been four mass shootings by individuals who identified as either trans or non-binary which is basically the same thing. I know if I were an FFL retailer I would request voter ID registration and anyone registered as a Democrat would be sent away. They want to vote to take away our rights then I wood do my part to make sure they can't exercise theirs.

 

[adit]

Just wait till the first Trans justice warrior gets denied and the poor FFL gets squashed by the Biden Justice Department

Had a discussion with a few people yesterday on question 14 (Sex: Male/Female/Non-Binary) on the 4473.

If you were born a Male, identify and answer as Female, have you now lied on the 4473?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

 

[eruby]

You left out old.

I'm not old, I'm:

 

[Mark75H]

Very Historic

 

[Blacksmith101]

I'm not old, I'm:

View attachment 408208

Have a good day Sam.

 

[rseymorejr]

Have a good day Sam.

That's Mr. Ple, to you!

 

[Blacksmith101]

Yeah that's what I was getting at. There have been four mass shootings by individuals who identified as either trans or non-binary which is basically the same thing. I know if I were an FFL retailer I would request voter ID registration and anyone registered as a Democrat would be sent away. They want to vote to take away our rights then I wood do my part to make sure they can't exercise theirs.

That is not fair to us DINO's who suffer the stigma of being registered Democrap just so we can try to primary out the worst anti gunners in the "D"umb party in Maryland.

 

[RFBfromDE]

Very Historic

He's got that left turn signal on from Pikesville to St. Augustine Beach and we know it!

 

[lazarus]

Yeah that's what I was getting at. There have been four mass shootings by individuals who identified as either trans or non-binary which is basically the same thing. I know if I were an FFL retailer I would request voter ID registration and anyone registered as a Democrat would be sent away. They want to vote to take away our rights then I wood do my part to make sure they can't exercise theirs.

I mean, if you want to get into figures, over the last decade there have been something like 4000-5000 mass shootings (4 or more people shot). So that's less than .1% are by trans/non-binary. Supposedly about .8% of the adult US population is trans or non-binary. 4 is too few to have good statistical confidence, but that comes in somewhere around 8 times less likely to be a mass shooter than someone hetro and not confused. I can't find numbers on gay/lesbian mass shooters, but I've never heard of one. I am sure they've existed.

Looking at demographics, there is no clear trend. White people seem to commit mass shootings just a tiny amount less than their demographic makeup of the US. Blacks somewhat more. Latinos and Hispanics also just a bit less.

Dudes though, about 96% of mass shooters. Only about 4% are women.

Not that I'd trust them for everything, but politifact looked into Rep. Claudia Tenney's claim a little while back that most mass shooters are Democrats (BTW, she walked her claim back later the same day).

Basically, they found that the vast majority of more publicized mass shooters, there was no voter registration information to be found in most cases, because they were not registered to vote at all, and at best, there was a person who knew a person who said they thought the shooter was a little liberal. Or in some cases, conservative.

Basically, the only clear trend was that the vast majority of well publicized mass shooters...were not registered to vote (heck, the vast majority of mass shootings have nothing to do with politics and Republicans own guns at a much higher rate than Democrats or those not affiliated with a political party).

So if you want to stop a mass shooting, ask for proof of voter registration and refuse to sell to anyone not registered to vote. Especially if they identify as a man (whether they are or not).

 

[Epiphany]

There’s no like button still…

But yes to all of the above.

The great thing about good data is it really doesn’t lie…

 

[Tower43]

Should be, but the government begs to differ

Any private business should be able to say, 'I hate that fat ugly Jew eruby and I won't sell to him, but in this day and age, that just isn't so.

I honestly wish it were so. I'm glad about smoke free restaurants but I despise it's under the jackboot of government, and not voluntary

I mean they CAN deny sale to the "fat ugly Jew" as long as it isn't BECAUSE of being fat, or ugly, or a Jew... though now that I think about it, ONLY religion is protected in that case.

 

[Tower43]

A better question would be, how much worse would it be with no background checks. If the ATFs figures are to be believed, it’s several hundred thousand denials a year. With something like a 10-20% positive rate (as in, yeah, the person is really prohibited). That’s at least tens of thousands of people who should have guns, not getting them.

How many go in to get one through a straw purchase, a buddy, a private sale, a dude on a street corner, etc. don’t know. TONS of prohibited people get guns illegally. It’s just not that hard to do. Universal background checks would probably cut down in that more. Probably not a huge amount though.

I guess I am not scared to talk about what could happen. It could help. But on the other hand, 2A talks about rights, and UBC are an erosion of that. Thomas says public safety means balancing ain’t okay.

UBCs require gun registration. Registration creates lists. Lists are use to disarm citizens. Every single country that mandated registration nationwide later used that list to disarm people.

 

[lazarus]

UBCs require gun registration. Registration creates lists. Lists are use to disarm citizens. Every single country that mandated registration nationwide later used that list to disarm people.

Background checks today don’t require registration. UBCs don’t either unless you want to spot check everyone’s collections for compliance. UBCs require that there is at least one honest individual in the transaction and that’s it. Since the vast majority of people are

 

[Tower43]

Background checks today don’t require registration. UBCs don’t either unless you want to spot check everyone’s collections for compliance. UBCs require that there is at least one honest individual in the transaction and that’s it. Since the vast majority of people are

The UBCs the govt keeps pushing require registration. Because they require TRACKING of the serial numbers, contrary to the rules currently governing the ATF. Paper based forms won't cut it. Stop trusting the govt. They hate you. They are not your friends.

 

[rbird7282]

A better question would be, how much worse would it be with no background checks. If the ATFs figures are to be believed, it’s several hundred thousand denials a year. With something like a 10-20% positive rate (as in, yeah, the person is really prohibited). That’s at least tens of thousands of people who should have guns, not getting them.

How many go in to get one through a straw purchase, a buddy, a private sale, a dude on a street corner, etc. don’t know. TONS of prohibited people get guns illegally. It’s just not that hard to do. Universal background checks would probably cut down in that more. Probably not a huge amount though.

I guess I am not scared to talk about what could happen. It could help. But on the other hand, 2A talks about rights, and UBC are an erosion of that. Thomas says public safety means balancing ain’t okay.

You honestly think the people who are denied can’t get a gun? And you think UBC’s are going to help?
The only purpose for UBCs is to create a registry and eventually tie it to confiscation. Period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lazarus]

You honestly think the people who are denied can’t get a gun? And you think UBC’s are going to help?
The only purpose for UBCs is to create a registry and eventually tie it to confiscation. Period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In some limited ways, they might. Plenty of incompetent criminals.

But, no, I am not pushing them, because they are unconstitutional. I can acknowledge when something may do something though.

Just like a complete ban and confiscation of all privately held firearms may eventually reduce gun crime (I'd imagine it would take years and years). May. But sorry, you'd have to think I was crazy to actually think that's a GOOD idea or what that (okay, to be clear, I don't).

Back to Tower, I am not aware of any hard proposal on UBC with bill language. I HAVE heard the occasional discussion of universal registration. I haven't heard specific discussion that UBCs will include registration. They don't have to at all. The absolutism of UBCs require registration is wrong. Just like today's background checks don't need a 4473 to work. They do in fact require them by regulation. No doubt about that, but we could remove that and make it just a digital real time check, no paper record at all. Or allow the paper record to be destroyed immediately. A UBC can, just like a current background check, just require some limited personal information, check NICS, if it pass, great, here is the gun. Done. Other than allowing non-FFLs access to it, NICS wouldn't even need a redesign, it isn't like it is capturing firearm information today.

But, sorry that I am able to think in hypotheticals without getting a chubby over them being a reality. I don't want UBCs and I think they are an infringement. I can also posit how socialism can be a good thing if everyone are benevolent adults. Or that a dictatorship can be a great thing. Or utopian society and complete anarchy can be the best thing since sliced bread. But they all require things that don't exist in human nature to be good. UBCs and creeping gun control require things that don't exist in human nature to be good things (and for that matter, the 2A doesn't say "well if this restriction is better for everyone then its fine" It says, "shall not be infringe")

 

[The Saint]

Just once I would love one of the MD politicians like Johnny O and crew to come in my shop to try and buy a firearm, just so I could take a picture with them, and then turn to them, shake their hand and call them a POS right to their face, and then immediately deny them sale and tell them to kick rocks.

 

[Sleepy]

I mean, if you want to get into figures, over the last decade there have been something like 4000-5000 mass shootings (4 or more people shot).

4000-5000? I'm no mathlete but that seems high

For comparison left wing Mother Jones only lists 80 in the last decade

Rockefeller Institute of Government, the liberal public policy arm of the State University of New York lists only 402 from 1966-2020

I believe both of those exclude gang/crime related shootings

 

[lazarus]

4000-5000? I'm no mathlete but that seems high

For comparison left wing Mother Jones only lists 80 in the last decade

Rockefeller Institute of Government, the liberal public policy arm of the State University of New York lists only 402 from 1966-2020

I believe both of those exclude gang/crime related shootings

Both of those are using mass killings, not mass shootings.

Mass shootings are 4 or more shot, not including the shooter. Mass killings are 4 or more killed, not including the murder. Vastly different statistics.

And gang/crime related mass shootings are a bit more than half of them. Gang/crime related mass shootings are actually a slightly higher percentage of mass shootings than they are of murders (something like half of gun homicides are gang/crime related, but like 60% of mass shootings are).