The gun dealers have any authority

[Muleskinner]

To deny a person the purchase of a gun even if they complete the paperwork in what appears to a be legal and normal manner? I guess what I'm asking is if they have any discretion to deny a purchase if they seem something that appears out of sorts?

 

[BartExp]

I would think absolutely yes. If they think a straw purchase is happening, they could end up getting sued if the gun is used in a crime. How far their discretion goes--I don't know.

 

[Lafayette]

To deny a person the purchase of a gun even if they complete the paperwork in what appears to a be legal and normal manner? I guess what I'm asking is if they have any discretion to deny a purchase if they seem something that appears out of sorts?

My understanding is “yes” they may deny a purchase. For instance if they suspect a straw purchase, or other prohibited acts.

 

[4g64loser]

Absolutely.

 

[Bertfish]

So I've been told

 

[linkstate]

I’m not an FFL but I do know they have discretion. Just about every shop I’ve been too in the last year or so have signs up that if you smell like weed, don’t even come in.

I’ve witnessed a dimwit get denied at bass pro before the paperwork was completed.

Never witnessed a refusal to complete a transaction after all the paperwork is done but I’m sure if I came in sloppy drunk to pickup my not disapproved, I would not be walking out with a gun.

 

[Hibs]

Yes, pretty sure you can find it on the ATF website. I was browsing for something kind of related and pretty sure I remember reading it, that an FFL can use their discrection basically.

 

[4g64loser]

It's in the FFL dealer handbook. If I remember, I'll try to look it up next time I'm at my friends shop (he's an 07, so he is mostly involved in making/repairing but the rules are the same for disposition).

FFLs can also opt not to use the CCW NICS check exemption. I know one in WV who does a NICS even if you have a permit. To linkstate's comment, they have signs on both doors to not enter if you stink of weed or booze.

 

[rseymorejr]

FFLs can also opt not to use the CCW NICS check exemption. I know one in WV who does a NICS even if you have a permit. To linkstate's comment, they have signs on both doors to not enter if you stink of weed or booze.

I'd never deal with him. We don't need to support FFL's that infringe worse than the state does. He should be
selling greeting cards instead.

 

[6-Pack]

I’m not an FFL but I do know they have discretion. Just about every shop I’ve been too in the last year or so have signs up that if you smell like weed, don’t even come in.

I’ve witnessed a dimwit get denied at bass pro before the paperwork was completed.

Never witnessed a refusal to complete a transaction after all the paperwork is done but I’m sure if I came in sloppy drunk to pickup my not disapproved, I would not be walking out with a gun.

I asked the owner of the shop I frequent about his similar signs. He said it’s enough of a problem (drunk/high gun shoppers) that a sign was warranted.

I believe FFLs have a decent amount of discretion. Don’t forget, their @$$ is on the line if there’s a problem. Also, the ATF has really ramped up license revocations lately for infractions.

 

[joppaj]

I've absolutely watched a dealer refuse a sale.

 

[SigMatt]

Firearms dealers are one of the few businesses where "protected classes" really don't exist in practice. An FFL has wide latitude to deny your business even if the transaction would be legal. A bad feeling or a cross word is sufficient. No one is required to sell you a gun. And while some can argue you can't deny protected classes, unless the dealer is being obvious about it, no one is going to be able to prove it and force the matter.

The rationale is simple: Does an FFL want to be the one in the spotlight where they did a transfer, even though legally approved by NICS, to someone they felt was "off" and that information came to light? The media and anti-gun forces will excoriate that person more than they already would be having merely done it through normal course of business with no idea. Hindsight is a real thing and when it comes to guns, an FFL will not be given a lot of slack. An IRS audit or a colonoscopy without anesthesia will be more pleasant.

So yes, a dealer can refuse a sale because they don't like the way they looked at you. I've seen it. Several times. In some cases, adjusting my body position to clear lanes of fire (including for my own) because I was watching someone work on talking themselves out the door. Been at this gun ownership thing for going on 20 years and I've seen many a purchase denied long before it got to the paperwork stage.

No one will turn to an FFL and say "You should have sold that gun!" But a lot of people will say "Why did you do that?"

In my experience, an FFL has virtually unlimited ability to say "No" at any stage in the process. Even after "NICS Proceed" comes back.

Matt

 

[spoon059]

Any private business can refuse to sell to anyone, for any reason, at any time.

 

[eruby]

Any private business can refuse to sell to anyone, for any reason, at any time.

Should be, but the government begs to differ

Any private business should be able to say, 'I hate that fat ugly Jew eruby and I won't sell to him, but in this day and age, that just isn't so.

I honestly wish it were so. I'm glad about smoke free restaurants but I despise it's under the jackboot of government, and not voluntary

 

[swinokur]

It’s his license

His rules

 

[RegularJay]

Just wait till the first Trans justice warrior gets denied and the poor FFL gets squashed by the Biden Justice Department

 

[tjv4163]

If anyone came to pick up a gun from me and smelled like drugs or alcohol I wouldn’t release the gun to them until they came back not smelling like that.

 

[JohnnyE]

I've absolutely watched a dealer refuse a sale.

Me, too. It was a good call by the dealer. The undoubtedly prohibited person was asking all the questions and fondling the gun, and his girl could not have cared less about what was going on. When the 4473 and 77R phase arrived, he started to coach her on what to do. The dealer stopped the transaction right there. Frankly, even before then, I could see it coming.

Should be, but the government begs to differ

Any private business should be able to say, 'I hate that fat ugly Jew eruby and I won't sell to him, but in this day and age, that just isn't so.

I honestly wish it were so. I'm glad about smoke free restaurants but I despise it's under the jackboot of government, and not voluntary

Until the FFL pointed out the Magen David around your neck, he was on firm ground.

 

[4g64loser]

I'd never deal with him. We don't need to support FFL's that infringe worse than the state does. He should be
selling greeting cards instead.

Your money, your choice. His business, his choice. I am in favor of the CCW exemption but I don't own the premises, the inventory, or pay the bills. I just know the store and the guys who work in it.

They have had, multiple times, this policy save them a lot of grief. WV doesn't actively go after the CCW permit of someone who becomes prohibited. The nics check caught it. In one case, the guy was actually convicted, not just under indictment. He still had his CCW card in hand.

 

[j_h_smith]

When I worked at a gun shop as well as at gun shows, we denied gun sales. When your spidey senses start tingling, it's best to just say NO.