The final SB 281: A detailed summary for non-lawyers

[iH8DemLibz]

Hello All,

I have a question and I would like a one word answer.

Here we go: If a not-so-mary-land resident bought a plain jane, bushmaster ar-15 service rifle in .223 caliber with a 20 inch barrel and solid stock out of state/nics check only/cash and carry 12 years ago,does the not-so-mary-land resident have to register the rifle/so-called assault weapon/restricted firearm with the state police after 10-1?

Remember, one word answer please.

 

[rmiddle]

Hello All,

I have a question and I would like a one word answer.

Here we go: If a not-so-mary-land resident bought a plain jane, bushmaster ar-15 service rifle in .223 caliber with a 20 inch barrel and solid stock out of state/nics check only/cash and carry 12 years ago,does the not-so-mary-land resident have to register the rifle/so-called assault weapon/restricted firearm with the state police after 10-1?

Remember, one word answer please.

NO http://mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=109281

 

[Torin]

With all the ambiguity, idiosyncrasies and contradictions, SB281 continues to demonstrate it is one of the dumbest, useless wastes of time to come out of the GA.

 

[Pinecone]

All FFL records are paper, no requirement to do digital record keeping.

Feel free to volunteer to thumb through how ever many years of records at a specific FFL to find the sale. MSP keeps a record of anything sold on a 77R, and does keep a computer DB, but I do not believe the date is in the DB.

But to convict you of owning a post ban gun, they would have to show it was purchased post ban.

Or, if you know where it was purchased and when, even without the paperwork, then your lawyer could subpoena the records from the FFL or BATF (for FFLs who have gone out of business) showing when it was purchased.

 

[DaedalEVE]

Just wanted to let people know there is a way around the ban, just thought of it tonight.

If you know someone out of state just "rent a room" from them, make your purchase using that as your address, then "move back" to MD and register the firearm within 90 days.
There are going to be a few little issues with this like drivers license issues perhaps, but it does get around the ban. So just throwing that out there.

The point is, all this legislation amounts to nothing. They are stopping no one from legally doing anything that they can not already do. You simply have to go through more hoops to do it.
So if there WAS another Adam Lanza out there, and he was planning to do anything, there is nothing stopping him from taking his time, planning any of this, and following through. There is also nothing preventing him from just killing anyone that already own firearms and using those to do the same thing.

Assessment: Total and complete failure to stop ANYONE (even us) from getting anything we want. It's just a matter of how far you're willing to go to get it. Meanwhile if you want it ILLEGALLY it's dirt simply and less expensive.

 

[swinokur]

That won't work after October 1st IIRC. After Oct 1, no banned weapon can come into the state other than one purchased prior to Oct.1. You cannot buy it out of state after Oct 1, then come in and register it as I read it.

Someone can correct me if I read it incorrectly.

 

[DaedalEVE]

That won't work after October 1st IIRC. After Oct 1, no banned weapon can come into the state other than one purchased prior to Oct.1. You cannot buy it out of state after Oct 1, then come in and register it as I read it.

Someone can correct me if I read it incorrectly.

From what I saw on the "for non-laywers" explanation thread, those who move to Maryland can bring them in, but they must be registered within 90 days of moving here. Hence why you would have to temporarily "move" to a different state. Likely you'd have to get a new drivers license.

The question here is, if you're going to continue to live in Maryland while these laws are in effect, and you're going to remain legal, how far are you willing to go to get something? Depending on what it is, some of us might be willing to put in the work. Consider the fact people are willing to actually leave the state because of this, or give their lives fighting for it, what's some paperwork and a few $ in the grand scheme of things if in the end it lets you give O'Malley and his minions the finger?

 

[swinokur]

My read (and i could be wrong) The only way to bring a banned weapon into the state under any circumstances is to be in legal possession of it prior to Oct. 1. You can move here after Oct 1 and register it.I don't think you can buy it in PA after Oct 1, then come to MD and register it. That's my read anyway.

 

[teratos]

My read (and i could be wrong) The only way to bring a banned weapon into the state under any circumstances is to be in legal possession of it prior to Oct. 1. You can move here after Oct 1 and register it.I don't think you can buy it in PA after Oct 1, then come to MD and register it. That's my read anyway.

That's how I read it, too.

 

[swinokur]

The hair is always correct.

 

[madness3120]

Yea i think thats how its written im sure Omalley thought about that 1

 

[madness3120]

Y do all that? Just get what u want by oct 1? Or move.

 

[teratos]

Y do all that? Just get what u want by oct 1? Or move.

It's that simple....

 

[md123]

It's that simple....

Teratos- almost didn't notice you there w/o the old avatar.

Couple people have changed theirs out lately; is it some sort of SB281 catharsis?

 

[DaedalEVE]

That's how I read it, too.

Ok, then I misunderstood something somewhere and I do apologize for that. Have to say, I thought I was on to something. It seemed like a pain in the ass, but whatever works, am I right?

Y do all that? Just get what u want by oct 1? Or move.

I might not have all the money I need for my Fulton Armory M21. I've wanted one for a long time and decided that it's now or never. I also can't afford to move permanently, otherwise I'd have been gone years ago.

 

[INMY01TA]

Am I going to need to remove my forward grip, pistol grip, flash suppressor, or collapsable stock on my previously purchased ARs after Oct 1st?

 

[dblas]

I am very concerned with "receive" ban in SB 281. In federal law, 18 usc 922(h), receive means merely to take knowing possession of it, however temporarily. See attached. If so, then no person without the license can take even temporary possession of a handgun, and that could include your family friends and everyone else. It's impossible to introduce people to the sport with this ban. Indeed, it is hard to see how the course could be even taught with this ban, as the course requires an "orientation component that demonstrates the person's safe operation and handling of a firearm"

I can speak to this somewhat as I was party to discussions as this all developed. It was everyones thought (lawyers and non-lawyers alike) amongst the Delegates, that possession implied taking the fire out of the control of the owner (i.e. I loan you a firearm for you to take to a range without me being there).

I and others brought up this issue many times and were assured that I could take my wife or a friend to a range and let them use my firearm in my presence. Or that a range could rent a firearm to a patron for use at the range. A firearms instructor could bring and loan firearms to people taking the class.

All of the above were cleared as OK by folks in Annapolis on both sides.

 

[dblas]

But to convict you of owning a post ban gun, they would have to show it was purchased post ban.

Or, if you know where it was purchased and when, even without the paperwork, then your lawyer could subpoena the records from the FFL or BATF (for FFLs who have gone out of business) showing when it was purchased.

Exactly, the Government would have to prove when purchased, not you.

 

[Torin]

Exactly, the Government would have to prove when purchased, not you.

Not so sure about that one. If you were in possession of a class III weapon and were arrested for having it, I'm pretty sure you would demonstrate that you could lawfully possess it.

 

[dblas]

Not so sure about that one. If you were in possession of a class III weapon and were arrested for having it, I'm pretty sure you would demonstrate that you could lawfully possess it.

Apples and Oranges dude, anyone and everyone I know that has an NFA item keeps a copy of the stamp with it.

How many people carry the receipt for their firearms purchase with the firearm?

Again, innocent until PROVEN guilty, yes, they can arrest you, but a prosecutor would be stupid to move forward without proof of date of purchase. Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is still the law of the day and the land. Hence the government has to prove that it violates the statute.