Stripped lowers legal?

[NateIU10]

please elaborate. Huge coincidence?

It was not the lawsuit.

 

[mdram]

any time frame on an official release from msp?

 

[fabsroman]

And another dodge without citing any code, case law or reasoning of why a 77r is required. The last two sentences merely state what has been said before. I love those who fall back on rhetorical tautologies. Easy pickings.
Thanks BBestPawn for your persistence! I'll have to check out your merch. on one of the rare occasions I am released from work and baby duties.

I take my kids to the gun shop with me. Last year, I had the 9 month old in her baby carrier carseat sitting on the gun shop floor as I was filling out Forms 77R while my other two kids were just looking at the guns in the glass cases. Don't let baby duty stop you from going to the gun shop.

 

[whistlersmother]

I can unequivocally state that this was NOT the reason for this change of tune.

please elaborate. Huge coincidence?

Well, perhaps not the reason, but as swinokur states, a HUGE coincidence.

If this happened because of an IP or friendly lawyer's pushing, my sincerest THANKS.

Now - convincing the wife I need to spend more money on chunks of metal.

 

[fabsroman]

Due to the Rules of Professional Conduct, I cannot. I can state that there were very specific events that took place that led to this, and it was not the lawsuit.

To those that do not know what the Rules of Professional Conduct are, I would bet that it has something to do with client confidentiality. Nate's client would have to give him the ok to discuss the matter.

See, recent law school grads know the Rules of Professional conduct like the back of their hand. We have to take an entire semester class regarding the Rules of Professional Conduct. I knew them pretty good too when I graduated back in 1998. Nowadays, I just know when something isn't right and I have to refer to the rules to figure it out. Most recent case was two sisters that wanted me to represent both of them in a criminal matter wherein they were both saying the other did it.

 

[Calengor]

Latest update:

"Sir,

I am sorry, I am not at my desk right now so I can not quote what section of MD code it is but the lower receiver is classified as a firearm. The complete assault weapon version of the AR-15 is banned but because the lower receiver is classified as a firearm and can still be built into legal firearms it was found to be exempt from the current version of the law. A 77R is required to purchase a lower receiver, an HQL is not. Multiple purchases can be made just as before. You can of course complete the weapon with a heavy barrel and sell it as a non-regulated firearm but a lower receiver sold on its own required a 77R. "

...

What's your take on the above, Nate? It still appears to me that they're dancing around it and purposefully being obtuse about it.

 

[NateIU10]

What's your take on the above, Nate? It still appears to me that they're dancing around it and purposefully being obtuse about it.

§ 5-117. Application for regulated firearm required

A person must submit a firearm application in accordance with this subtitle before the person purchases, rents, or transfers a regulated firearm.

§ 5-101. Definitions

(r) “Regulated firearm” means:

(1) a handgun; or

(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:...

(n)(1) “Handgun” means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

(2) “Handgun” includes signal, starter, and blank pistols.

A frame or receiver is a firearm. If that frame or receiver is not a handgun (if it has no barrel, it cannot have a barrel less than 16" in length) and is not listed in PS 5-101(r)(2) (if it were, it would be a banned assault long gun), it cannot be a regulated firearm.

 

[Calengor]

A frame or receiver is a firearm. If that frame or receiver is not a handgun (if it has no barrel, it cannot have a barrel less than 16" in length) and is not listed in PS 5-101(r)(2) (if it were, it would be a banned assault long gun), it cannot be a regulated firearm.

So as you've stated before, firearms that aren't pistols are either banned or they're not regulated. And MSP is trying to have it so they're not banned but regulated, with no real backing in the law.

Latest update:

"Sir,

I am sorry, I am not at my desk right now so I can not quote what section of MD code it is but the lower receiver is classified as a firearm. The complete assault weapon version of the AR-15 is banned but because the lower receiver is classified as a firearm and can still be built into legal firearms it was found to be exempt from the current version of the law. A 77R is required to purchase a lower receiver, an HQL is not. Multiple purchases can be made just as before. You can of course complete the weapon with a heavy barrel and sell it as a non-regulated firearm but a lower receiver sold on its own required a 77R. "

I hope you asked them to get back to you when they're back at their desk with the specific section of the MD code that they're referring to is, as it doesn't seem to exist as of yet.

 

[swinokur]

Exactly. what law is MSP using to require a 77r on a stripped lower which is by their definition not regulated and now allowed for sale?

And if it's regulated, how is MSP saying you can buy multiple lowers without a DC letter or an HQL?

They have as usual realty forked this up.

 

[fabsroman]

So as you've stated before, firearms that aren't pistols are either banned or they're not regulated. And MSP is trying to have it so they're not banned but regulated, with no real backing in the law.



I hope you asked them to get back to you when they're back at their desk with the specific section of the MD code that they're referring to is, as it doesn't seem to exist as of yet.

The stripped lower can be built into an AR pistol or an AR HBAR. So, the pistol would be a regulated firearm.

Anybody know if the stripped lower can be built into an SBR post October 1, 2013? Guessing that an SBR, classified as a handgun, would also be considered a regulated firearm since it is considered a handgun by the State of Maryland.

 

[fidelity]

Was there a law that required use of a 77R for lower purchases prior to October 1, 2013? After all, they could still be built into HBARs back then. If there was no law and they could enforce rules that they inferred back then, what's to stop them now?

 

[AntiGun]

Was there a law that required use of a 77R for lower purchases prior to October 1, 2013? After all, they could still be built into HBARs back then. If there was no law and they could enforce rules that they inferred back then, what's to stop them now?

The fact that more people are paying attention to the details and holding them accountable.

 

[swinokur]

If it is built on a pre 10-1 lower and meets the copycat requiorements, OAL > 29" BATFE seems to finally be approving them. BATFE thought they needed to be on the roster, but I think MSP straightened them out on roster requirements for sales only.

Not 100% sure on all of this.

As you know IANAL. YUou are.

 

[Alphabrew]

Was there a law that required use of a 77R for lower purchases prior to October 1, 2013? After all, they could still be built into HBARs back then. If there was no law and they could enforce rules that they inferred back then, what's to stop them now?

Good point. Plus, you have decades of precedent.

 

[Calengor]

The stripped lower can be built into an AR pistol or an AR HBAR. So, the pistol would be a regulated firearm.

Anybody know if the stripped lower can be built into an SBR post October 1, 2013? Guessing that an SBR, classified as a handgun, would also be considered a regulated firearm since it is considered a handgun by the State of Maryland.

Sure, but it doesn't become said regulated firearm until you build it into said pistol. You're just as likely to make it into a non-regulated HBAR, or single shot rifle, or crossbow, etc. after you buy it. How can they claim that it would be regulated when purchased but then non-regulated once built into an HBAR? Especially since it doesn't have a basis in the law.

 

[nedsurf]

Actually, if any IPs are responsible for this recent development, I'll be happy to buy lowers from them and or chip in for legal fees.

+1

 

[swinokur]

Before 10-1 then lowers could also be built into AR 15's which were regulated and are now banned.

Now they can be built into only HBARs or pistols, which they are neither at purchase.

Shouldn't the law be applied as to the condition of the lower at purchase, not what it might be in the future?

 

[backhome426]

The stripped lower can be built into an AR pistol or an AR HBAR. So, the pistol would be a regulated firearm.

Anybody know if the stripped lower can be built into an SBR post October 1, 2013? Guessing that an SBR, classified as a handgun, would also be considered a regulated firearm since it is considered a handgun by the State of Maryland.

But the lower itself is not a pistol. It should not be regulated.

You can turn a stripped lower into an SBR by submitting a FORM to the ATF. And you can do that to these stripped lowers post 10/1 as well. The handgun roster is for the sale of hundguns and SBRs.

IANAL.

 

[Jaybeez]

as long as msp keeps "talking" they keep digging themselves deeper into a hole. I really enjoy this.

 

[Alphabrew]

Which members do we have to thank for this?