Spent shell casing situation

[Right_to_arm_bears]

So what action did you take?

I called and voiced my concerns over mailing a shell casing in. He said "It's no problem, I do it all the time, just wrap it in a paper towel beforehand".

I told him that the paperwork says a shell casing has been obtained and sent to MSP he said "That doesn't matter because I don't have it, it has to be sent in to them".

I said the gun was excessively dirty when I got it and it was definitely fired , he said "Well, I don't know what to tell you, I don't have a casing".

He then said if I didn't want to mail it, to just come in. I told him this was a pretty big inconvenience for me and he said "Sorry but these things just happen, come in and we will take care of it".


I just want to be done with it at this point...

 

[Right_to_arm_bears]

Why would your first action be to post on the internet about your situation instead of calling the shop back and talking it out with them? To me that just seems the easier route instead of trying to play lawyer against them with info you gather from an internet forum

Honestly, why does it matter to you or anyone else how I handle my business? I didn't call him out by name, I just wanted additional information because it seemed sketchy.

 

[Right_to_arm_bears]

Waste a stamp and be done with this clown. He's the one that's risking his license. Maybe there's some MSP administrative ruling that says it's okay. They change their minds all the time. We're not lawyers, how would we know about a detail like that?

And if the gun was just dirty, but not scratched or damaged, I think I'd write that off. What's he gonna do, give you a box of ammo? Is that even worth the trip? If that's the way he treats customers, well, you aren't the first or last to get bit by him, and word will get around. Write the POS off, and move on. Well, you can (and should) tell all your shooting buddies about it.

I've got a couple folks on my crap list. My goal is getting them out of my life, and not repeating the experience. A stamp and an envelope is a very cheap resolution.

Actually there are many people on here that are well aware of the various laws in MD, particularly the IPs. All the IPs that I have seen post here are saying that mailing it is a no-no.

 

[BBossman1]

Honestly, why does it matter to you or anyone else how I handle my business? I didn't call him out by name, I just wanted additional information because it seemed sketchy.

Oh I don't know... maybe because you posted your business on an internet discussion forum?

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

You got yourself a genuine dilemma on your hands....

Here's my $.02 worth.

Given the state of MD isn't all that big anyways, longest drive from southeast corner to northwest being about 3.5 hours (without traffic)... Just get in your car, drive to the shop and let the dealer take a shot in your presence, collect the shell, drive home and call it a day - with no expectations of any compensation. Heck, I'd even bring a box of ammo to be done with it.

Gotta be easier than trying to recover from a confiscation by MSP. And further woes that may come from the situation.

At this point, it doesn't matter who's wrong. The situation needs to be resolved and the MSP need a shell to throw in the fricking barrel never to be used for anything, other than to cause you (and the rest of us pistol purchasers) a major inconvenience.

Then never do business with that dealer again, even if it means forgoing a dream purchase that only can be had by that shop. The bus will come around the block again.

Furthermore, IMHO,there is nothing wrong with seeking information on how to handle this situatIon here before moving forward. Isn't that why there's a forum after all? The situation is a bit sketchy and your inquiry seems reasonable. Better to be informed than walk into a situation and not know what's up.

 

[Mark75H]

You got yourself a genuine dilemma on your hands....

Here's my $.02 worth.

Given the state of MD isn't all that big anyways, longest drive from southeast corner to northwest being about 3.5 hours (without traffic)... Just get in your car, drive to the shop and let the dealer take a shot in your presence, collect the shell, drive home and call it a day - with no expectations of any compensation. Heck, I'd even bring a box of ammo to be done with it.

Gotta be easier than trying to recover from a confiscation by MSP. And further woes that may come from the situation.

At this point, it doesn't matter who's wrong. The situation needs to be resolved and the MSP need a shell to throw in the fricking barrel never to be used for anything, other than to cause you (and the rest of us pistol purchasers) a major inconvenience.

Then never do business with that dealer again, even if it means forgoing a dream purchase that only can be had by that shop. The bus will come around the block again.

Furthermore, IMHO,there is nothing wrong with seeking information on how to handle this situatIon here before moving forward. Isn't that why there's a forum after all? The situation is a bit sketchy and your inquiry seems reasonable. Better to be informed than walk into a situation and not know what's up.

If the dealer is an 07 ... if not, leave the gun and come back when its back from the 07

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

If the dealer is an 07 ... if not, leave the gun and come back when its back from the 07

Ayup, maybe schedule the visit so the FFL 07 is available to take the shot (in that event).

 

[Mark75H]

It does matter who is wrong. You order and pay for surf and turf from a caterer and the crew shows up with no steak - who should be doing something and who should just be sitting at the table? "Sorry, sometimes we just forget something." You would accept that?

 

[Evojoeix]

Honestly, why does it matter to you or anyone else how I handle my business? I didn't call him out by name, I just wanted additional information because it seemed sketchy.

Honestly it doesnt matter to me at all. All my shell casings are where they need to be. I just gave my opinion on the subject considering thats the only reason you post this on an internet forum

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

It does matter who is wrong. You order and pay for surf and turf from a caterer and the crew shows up with no steak - who should be doing something and who should just be sitting at the table? "Sorry, sometimes we just forget something." You would accept that?

Generally, I would agree with you.... But, in this event given the political climate in MD, next thing ya know, the MSP are knocking on HIS door, not the FFL that sold him the gun and didn't take care of the business that was supposed to be done.

 

[gungate]

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" comes to mind. I'd make sure it is done legally. Obviously just mailing it is not legal. Was this a new gun? Every new gun I ever purchased in MD came with the spent casing in a sealed envelope in the box.

 

[Mark75H]

I agree, the intermediate result could well be MSP takes his gun - I see the most likely long term result being a former FFL with a small claims judgement against him.


If I were the FFL involved in this I would be apologizing left and right and offering something like a spare mag and a couple of boxes of ammo to entice the customer into getting this promptly resolved.

 

[Briareos]

To the OP - Is there any chance you got a different gun than the one you originally looked at? This could explain a lot...

 

[rseymorejr]

We have 2 separate issues here:

1) You need to arrange to get the shell casing done ASAP, just to make sure there are no legal problems for either of you.

2) You need to communicate with the dealer about your problems with the condition of the gun and your extra time and trouble making his mistake right.

Depending on your satisfaction with item #2 you may or may not want to name the dealer or decide to deal with him in the future.

The shell casing situation needs to be resolved sooner rather than later

 

[JohnnyE]

How else would the dealer get the shell?

I agree about making things right one way or another, and never said any different.




It's not leverage, it's blackmail. The law, silly or not says the casing has to be collected and turned in. You can't pick and choose what laws to ignore or not just to suit your own needs.

Again, I fully agree that the dealer should set things right in an appropriate manner and have repeatedly said so.

MSP won't give ANY heat to the dealer if they call and simply report that they lost or failed to collect the shell and the buyer is refusing to comply with their efforts to collect it. I would guess it is lost since it is clear they did fire the gun.

This, unfortunately is a lose-lose for the buyer with regard to getting jammed up. Hopefully the dealer steps up and makes it better.

My guess is that if the buyer had simply made the trip back without all the hoopla, things would have already been set right.

Thanks for providing more enlightenment. I spent some time looking up the statute involved here, Title 5, Subtitle 1, § 5-131. AGC appears to have created a nice compendium of Maryland firearms laws at http://www.associatedgunclubs.org/legislative/general_interest/Code_of_Maryland_2014.pdf. The following thread also quotes the statute in its first post: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=52302.

The statute places the duty on the manufacturer or dealer to provide the casing. The purchaser has no duty under law in this matter. The dealer is in a situation because he released the pistol without fulfilling his statutory obligation. The dealer has no power over the pistol's owner to correct the problem. Bad legal situation for the dealer. If the OP wants to be a real prick about it, he can let the dealer suffer. I don't think that's morally the right thing to do, but I am separating law and morality here.

The penalty for violation does not appear within this provision. I have encountered statutes with no teeth before, and prosecutors tend not to be interested in pursuing these because even if the get a victory, nothing happens. I am not a Maryland attorney, and I would ask one to weigh in on this point.

Unless I am mistaken, a purchaser has no obligation and risks no penalty under the law in a situation like this. I do not see the buyer getting "jammed up" here. Now, using the law to the maximum extent to commit "blackmail" doesn't make it morally "right," although the first step in dealing with a legal quagmire is to understand exactly what the law says.

Notwithstanding all of the posts on this matter, this got to where it is because the dealer messed up twice, first by failing to send MSP the casing, and second, by pissing off the person who is in position to help him.

I'll say it again: although I am not a Maryland attorney, above is what I think is a cold, heartless discussion of legal obligations. It is nevertheless up to people to do the right thing.

 

[Brooklyn]

Find an 007. Let them get the shell casing. Have them mail it to the dealer. Any fee will be less than gas

Now want to know how op can get jamed up? Is the gun evidence of a failure , willful or not, on the part of an ffl.

If so it can and will be seized pending resolution.

Or I am full of it. At this point I am not sure I care.

 

[Pinecone]

Taking the last.

Have the dealer find an 07 FFL near you, and arrange to have you show up for them to fire the pistol and mail the casing to the selling dealer. AT THE SELLING DEALER'S EXPENSE.

Easier on you, fixes it for them, and while it seems you are off the hook, you are being a good guy.

Oh, and out this dealer so we know not to buy from them.

 

[Slowhand]

THIS!

OP, I sense these guys are upsetting you a second time. The first time was their overuse of your gun by shooting more than the ONE round they needed to provide a casing to MSP, and, the second time, by asking you to pay them a visit to shoot yet another round to collect a casing, again, to give to MSP. I'm not sorry for being a hard ass about this. I own revolvers that are pristine, where the cylinders have never been turned to score the bluing. The FFL had the legal duty, and thus the right, to only shoot ONE round out of your new gun. If I were negotiating this issue with them, I would insist that they make it worth my while.

I say this not knowing where the legal liability lays. If its on the FFL, I stand by the above. If there is something in the law of which I am not aware that gives you culpability, then disregard.

 

[dgapilot]

All the banter back and forth about sending the casing or going back to the dealer to have him fire the gun and collect the casing is one thing. On the other hand, couldn't this be the perfect case to bring to strike down the casing requirement? Assuming the owner is willing to be the poster child to file the law suit and one of the pro 2a organizations was willing to take it on and help finance it.

Remember one step at a time, and each step along the way helps to win the war.

 

[Mark75H]

All the banter back and forth about sending the casing or going back to the dealer to have him fire the gun and collect the casing is one thing. On the other hand, couldn't this be the perfect case to bring to strike down the casing requirement? Assuming the owner is willing to be the poster child to file the law suit and one of the pro 2a organizations was willing to take it on and help finance it.

Remember one step at a time, and each step along the way helps to win the war.

No, I do not see where this could have any positive effect on the law or its removal.

After all, "a match was found" once, by reverse consequence, by thorough investigation ... of irrelevant facts